Search For
 

 
Discussion Groups: Brandon Chatter


Topic: A comparison of Brandon salaries and wages
0 Like(s)   


Page1 23Next>
Adam

1/4/2012 11:34:43 AM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:13329
A comparison of Brandon salaries and wages

The topic of City salaries and wages has come to the forefront in recent weeks as folks try to develop an understanding of what the City is paying and what its proposed is paid in the 2012 budget.  
 
As many probably know, those in the public sector in Manitoba are required annually to disclose wages/salaries paid to public sector employees that earned more than $50,000.  
2011 salary disclosures won't be available for several months, but to provide some means for comparison and understanding of what we pay the fine folks that work for the City I've obtained and posted the 2010 disclosures for Brandon as well as smaller cities Dauphin (population approx 9,000), Portage (13,000) and Winkler (10,000). While names are considered to be public information, I've blacked them out in the documents I've posted as I don't feel its necessary to include individual names in what's meant to be more of an understanding of what public dollars are paid for what positions/services.  
 
A link to the document published by Winnipeg is also included as well as links to online databases for British Columbia and Ontario.  
 
Unfortunately there's little in the name of black and white comparisons. There isn't another city in Manitoba that's of Brandon's general size, and Ontario and BC have different criteria as far as what wage one has to earn to be included in salary disclosures (Ontario: $100,000 and BC: $75,000) but hopefully there is enough information for people to further their understanding.  
 
2010 Brandon salaries over $50,000:  
http://www.ebrandon.ca/pdfs/2010salarydisclosuresbrandon.pdf  
 
2010 Portage, Winkler, Dauphin salaries over $50,000:  
http://www.ebrandon.ca/pdfs/2010salarydisclosuresmanitoba.pdf  
 
2010 Winnipeg compensation disclosure as published by that City:  
http://www.winnipeg.ca/isext/document_library/cityofwinnipegcompensationdisclosure.pdf  
 
2010 Ontario public sector salary disclosure:  
http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2011/munic11a.html  
 
2009 BC public sector salary database:  
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/public-sector-salaries/advanced-search.html

 
 
  Advertisement
 
Johnbisonbear

1/4/2012 12:00:49 PM
Member since:
Mar 2010
Total posts:1352
new wages

Adam, any way you can get a hold of the new wages that are being paid now especially what the new positions are getting. Sure would like to know

Edited by admin, 2012-01-04 12:14:35. Reason: speculation

GoldenP

1/4/2012 12:28:30 PM
Member since:
Sep 2010
Total posts:159
interesting

I had no idea the bus drivers made so much. Or that there were so many police making over 100k...but the former City Manager was making $167k? Omg...considering his house was up for a tax sale and he had the whole credit card fiasco, he didn't have the best budgeting skills.

Daphne

1/4/2012 12:34:25 PM
Member since:
Apr 2011
Total posts:772
Holy Crap

I want to be a police officer or a fireman! I had no idea they made that much.

NotThatGuy

1/4/2012 12:42:34 PM
Member since:
Apr 2008
Total posts:1323
...

Wow, if people think BPS is overpaid, they should have a look at what Winkler is paying their constables. Would it be wrong to wonder if they see less violent incidents that the members of BPS do?

GoldenP

1/4/2012 12:44:54 PM
Member since:
Sep 2010
Total posts:159
city council

What are the other payments received by city council? Do they get extra for each meeting or...? There is a huge difference in Councillor salaries... Also the mayor gets these extra amounts. I assume that is on top of the base salary?

Adam

1/4/2012 1:17:08 PM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:13329
Salaries

Goosie: The main difference you'll notice in regular councillor and mayor pay came about because of the Oct 2010 election. Some were only paid for a portion of the year. You'll see the same effect for anybody else on city staff that was not working for the city for the full 12 month year.  
 
Johnbisonbear: the intent of this thread was to give the tools for one to develop a broader understanding of Brandon pay and how it might compare to other places. 2010 is the most recent year that we'd be able to get the kinds of documents that would support that. The Public Sector Compensation Disclosure Act requires that salaries be disclosed within six months of the end of the fiscal year, so I don't expect we will have 2011 for several months yet. You might find some of what you're looking for re new hires in the budget documents posted on the City site.

jsmb

1/4/2012 1:42:02 PM
Member since:
Feb 2006
Total posts:358
Police and Firemen

They are poorly paid. I wouldn't do those jobs unless they paid at least 50% more. Crappy shifts, dealing with insane public, health risk. Glad they're doing it and not me.

TryThisName

1/4/2012 1:43:31 PM
Member since:
Jan 2011
Total posts:350
Hey Adam,

What about researching what the contracted increases have been in the last two years for the contracts that are expiring this year? The ever changing explanations from the mayor, some members of council etc keep refering to "the perfect storm" of 4 labour contracts coming up for re-negotiation. Now these are usually 3-5 year contracts with the salary increases ranging from 1-4% annually. So for the labour contracts expiring in 2012, what were the raises for the last two years of the contract? And how does the negotiation of a new contract that will likely span 3-5 years with 1-4% annual increases translate into a massive salary cost increase this year?  
 
If the city is trying to be as transparent as the mayor claims, then the salary category should be broken down into two or more categories, with the minimum being salary increases for existing staff (for comparison to last year's budget) and salary costs for new positions. They could (and probably should) break the existing staff increases into union contracted increases and discretionary non-union increases.  
 
I'm not going to bash what city staff are being paid, the people who post on here complaining about not getting raises in their current jobs (pensioners excluded of course) should stop bitching. City jobs are supposed to be desirable because they pay fair (admittedly sometimes more than fair) wages and have good benefits. I think that should continue, but there has to be some respect for the taxpayers of Brandon and since they already make good wages, annual increases should be modest.  
 
I've been greatly saddened listening to and reading about the current budgeting process. The tax re-assessment should have absolutely no impact on the city budget. When the assessments come out, the mill rate should automatically be rolled back so that the tax dollars generated on the assessment exactly equal last year's tax revenue plus any new developments/improvements undertaken since the last assessment. Then the city can examine it's needs for inflationary cost increases and evaluate new project proposals on their own merits. Having the tax assessment go up 15% should not mean that the mayor and council suddenly have millions of dollars to do with what they wish. I don't mind investment in my community. I actually don't even mind reasonable increases in my property tax, as long as its going toward projects that are going to make reasonable and substantial improvements in my community.  
 
The inaccurate justifications for the increases given by the mayor and some councilors brings me to one of two conclusions, either they are very stupid, or they think the citizens of Brandon are very stupid. I'm not sure which one is worse.

RonHart

1/4/2012 1:47:01 PM
Member since:
Nov 2011
Total posts:510
sure can

see why Brandon is in need of some pay increases.Only problem will be the union will do a % increase so the bottom person gets nothing and the over paid person gets a ton.Good to see council trying to move forward with wages and keep a good staff in place to look after the city.

G.E.S.

1/4/2012 1:57:48 PM
Member since:
Dec 2010
Total posts:52
Is there retroactive pay?

On the salary calculations for Police and firefighters was there a collective agreement ratified in the time frame of these reports? If so you may have 3 to 4 years of back pay included on one year's worth of salary. Either way for firefighters and police officers it is money well earned and deserved.  

Dudleyh45

1/4/2012 2:25:06 PM
Member since:
Oct 2011
Total posts:369
Daphne

  
Daphne said "I want to be a police officer or a fireman! I had no idea they made that much. "

wouldn't city clerk be better, considerably higher pay without the risk.

NA

1/4/2012 2:26:05 PM
Member since:
Apr 2013
Total posts:0
Wow...

by-laws make good money! I can totally give people tickets for that much money, haha

Adam

1/4/2012 2:28:45 PM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:13329
Retroactive

  
G.E.S. said "On the salary calculations for Police and firefighters was there a collective agreement ratified in the time frame of these reports? If so you may have 3 to 4 years of back pay included on one year's worth of salary. Either way for firefighters and police officers it is money well earned and deserved.  
"

I couldn't say for 100% sure, but I don't believe that any kind of retroactive pay has inflated the numbers based on a comparison with the 2009 disclosure.  
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 2009 for Brandon is at http://www.ebrandon.ca/pdfs/2009salarydisclosuresbrandon.pdf and when you pull the two of them up side-to-side there look to be some fluctuations up and down between 2009 and 2010 but I didn't see any kind of broad trend in the positions I looked at that would show significantly higher numbers in 2010 compared to the previous year.  
 
Somewhat related note to keep in mind... I remember back when we had a discussion about 2009 that someone had brought up that some of the total amounts you see would include overtime pay.

$entropy$

1/4/2012 2:29:22 PM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:971
I'd agree.

  
jsmb said "They are poorly paid. I wouldn't do those jobs unless they paid at least 50% more. Crappy shifts, dealing with insane public, health risk. Glad they're doing it and not me. "

100+K for a police officer? Well, when you take a look at the highest ranking ones, sure, they make that much. They worked their way up the ranks. But for the constables - not anywhere near that.  
 
I like the comparison between here-Winkler-Winnipeg-Dauphin - there is some disparity as to how much action is seen by some officers in different territories throughout the province: which is not reflected in their pay schedule.

Dudleyh45

1/4/2012 2:35:00 PM
Member since:
Oct 2011
Total posts:369
i expect

  
recoil said "Wow, if people think BPS is overpaid, they should have a look at what Winkler is paying their constables. Would it be wrong to wonder if they see less violent incidents that the members of BPS do? "

that it works out about the same per capita ratio of violent crime. Winkler has it's own set of problems which have multiplied since the opening of immigration in the past few years and the melding of rural and urban manitoba. The winkler police station has a display case in which you can see all manner of drugs (crack, crystal meth, pot, mushrooms etc) and weapons (home made guns, knives, throwing stars, nunchucks) all confiscated in their town. I expect the same could be found in every progressive community in the country.

Daphne

1/4/2012 3:13:56 PM
Member since:
Apr 2011
Total posts:772
Nope

  
Dudleyh45 said "
  
Daphne said "I want to be a police officer or a fireman! I had no idea they made that much. "

wouldn't city clerk be better, considerably higher pay without the risk. "

Couldn't carry a gun which scarily enough intrigues me. And no not in a phyco way.

Farmers Feed the World

1/4/2012 5:32:26 PM
Member since:
Apr 2011
Total posts:123
...

You heard it here first folks...I say in 20 years Winkler will have surpassed Brandon as manitobas second largest city. There is nothing that will hold that city back.

kerry auriat

1/4/2012 8:20:20 PM
Member since:
Nov 2007
Total posts:528
Good info, Adam

But I especially appreciate the classy move of removing names. People would go off on tangents complaining about so-and-so making certain amounts. Instead of personal attacks, you did the right thing! Good job!

Getty

1/4/2012 9:11:51 PM
Member since:
Aug 2008
Total posts:900
ahah

Policemen/Policewomen DO NOT make good money!!!!  
 
You have to be a Sargeant, Constable.. you need to be at higher position... which means you have to put many years before getting to that stage.  
 
As for firemen, the hours are crappy... the job is crappy.. no wonder you gotta pay people to do crappy jobs!

jim s

1/4/2012 9:34:56 PM
Member since:
Nov 2008
Total posts:15
city wages

what was the out of scope wage increase adjustment at city hall this past fall (non union workers)plus the 2% on top of that ..and how much did city hall pay the consultant to find the wage increases???? makes for a good tax increase to pay for the wages  
 
Edited by , 2012-01-04 21:49:17

curlysister

1/4/2012 9:40:11 PM
Member since:
Sep 2009
Total posts:1389
RHA

Hey Adam, was there an RHA list this past year? I remember 2009's being posted on here, but never saw 2010's.

:) Daisy :p

1/4/2012 9:54:08 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:57
:)

Keep in mind that police, fire, ems & emergency dispatch work 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. Most people look at the $$$ and compare it to their Monday-Friday job. These salaries aren't base, they include overtime (which for many is alot), night premium, continuous duty premium, stat holiday pay etc.

DontBeSilly

1/4/2012 10:34:22 PM
Member since:
Nov 2011
Total posts:950
Interesting

I didn't realise so many city employees made so much. I am very pleased that the names were blacked out. It would be wrong to disclose the names

Him

1/5/2012 12:01:35 AM
Member since:
Nov 2007
Total posts:110
Overtime

Ask a police officer or firefighter why they get paid so much? Because the ones that work shift work and actually work on the streets make lots of extra money because they're called in for overtime. Overtime due to the city running short. Compare their wages to their bosses....  

Nordberg

1/5/2012 10:04:43 AM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:4102
:::::

  
Jetta TDI Driver said "You heard it here first folks...I say in 20 years Winkler will have surpassed Brandon as manitobas second largest city. There is nothing that will hold that city back. "

Well, if Winkler only grows west, and Morden only grows east, then when they meet in the middle, maybe you'll be right.  
 
But what would we call it? Winkden? Mordkler? Winkmor?

Adam

1/5/2012 10:22:53 AM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:13329
Salaries

curlysister: I'd posted the City list in this thread mainly to provide folks with the tools to understand and form their own opinions on where their dollars are going within the context of the proposed property tax increase discussion thats taking place in the community. RHA salaries wouldn't be within the scope of this discussion, but if there is a future discussion thats relevant I may acquire the 2010 list to support that discussion. That said, if you or anyone else would like the 2010 list you should have a right to request it though.  
 
Prairie Waif: You might be right but I decided to do it for consistency's sake, and because IMO as Kerry eluded to it might turn the thread into stone-throwing at specific names when the intent of the lists being posted to this particular thread is just to help add to a big-picture understanding of where dollars are going. Councillors and mayors are what could be considered public figures and so they can and I'm sure do expect there to be discussion about what they make and that discussion could always take place at a different time. That said, you can guess which mayor got what pay based on how much of 2010 each would have had the office. If you're curious about those particular numbers/names I believe we all have the same right to request this public listing from the City  
 
Daisy/Him/Virgomom: Thanks for the added perspective regarding overtime/additional hours and how they might factor into the end amounts shown on the lists. Along those lines, its been brought to my attention that the eventual 2011 list may be less valuable from the perspective of understanding what the average person makes since it should include all of the extra flood overtime that was put in by the various folks that contributed to that fight.  
 
jim s: Unless there's verifiable accross-the-board info in that regard it might be outside of the scope of this thread where I'm trying to build and give folks the tools to build a numbers and facts-based understanding of what is being paid.  
 
TryThisName: Appreciate your perspective and suggestions. I have a request in this morning to obtain the most recent collective agreements.

RetroBush

1/5/2012 10:26:40 AM
Member since:
Dec 2011
Total posts:35
Yep

Re: Police & Fire. Don't forget that these 2 professions get provincial funding, so some of the wages you see are actually paid partial/whole by the government. Police could start to issue more tickets to Brandon patrons to try and get some of that money back ( I'm sure that would create another thread. haha). Also the Firefighters in Brandon are also the Paramedics, so that means that every time the ambulance takes a person to the hospital, that person gets a bill. I wonder how much money gets paid in that nobody hears about? I bet it is in the million $ range.  
These are both jobs that anyone can apply for. Start working on your resumes

nowayjw

1/5/2012 11:22:54 AM
Member since:
Oct 2010
Total posts:55
A comparison of Brandon salaries and wages

Adam, I don't see the real value in this comparison because you make the point that the city wages cannot accurately be compared to other cities. Different sizes, different costs of living,economies of scale etc.  
As for blacking out the employees names, you were selective in your blacking out. You redacted Brandon and smaller communities, but not Winnipeg, Ontario or BC. Privacy is OK for some, but not others? If you do it for one group of public employees, then you should do it for all. Where are the links for the communities you redacted?  
 
As for comments about emergency personnel salaries and the hours they work, is this not something they were aware of before taking the position? I'm not saying they don't deserve the money, because they do, but don't use the excuse of hours worked (incl overtime)as it shouldn't come as a surprise to them. Those professions are basically risk/reward professions and they get compensated quite well for it through salaries and very good benefits, which are not even considered in this comparison. The value of benefits can run around 30% of an employeee's salary and include drug, dental, sick leave, pension plan and on.  
 
Perhaps the salaries of Public Sector Workers should be compared to Private Sector Workers. A 5% increase to a public sector employee making 50K is substantially more than a 5% increase a Private Sector 30K employee makes. The gap keeps getting wider.

Adam

1/5/2012 12:00:08 PM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:13329
Value

  
schwingnamiss said "Adam, I don't see the real value in this comparison because you make the point that the city wages cannot accurately be compared to other cities. Different sizes, different costs of living,economies of scale etc.  
As for blacking out the employees names, you were selective in your blacking out. You redacted Brandon and smaller communities, but not Winnipeg, Ontario or BC. Privacy is OK for some, but not others? If you do it for one group of public employees, then you should do it for all. Where are the links for the communities you redacted?  
 
As for comments about emergency personnel salaries and the hours they work, is this not something they were aware of before taking the position? I'm not saying they don't deserve the money, because they do, but don't use the excuse of hours worked (incl overtime)as it shouldn't come as a surprise to them. Those professions are basically risk/reward professions and they get compensated quite well for it through salaries and very good benefits, which are not even considered in this comparison. The value of benefits can run around 30% of an employeee's salary and include drug, dental, sick leave, pension plan and on.  
 
Perhaps the salaries of Public Sector Workers should be compared to Private Sector Workers. A 5% increase to a public sector employee making 50K is substantially more than a 5% increase a Private Sector 30K employee makes. The gap keeps getting wider. "

Thanks for your thoughts  
 
On name blacking out....  
any documents I had control of and posted myself had the names removed. The Winnipeg, Ontario, BC info were posted/published by other sites. Blacking out the names wasn't strictly a privacy decision, the law dictates that these names are public. I know from experience that for the purposes of this particular thread the names would add next to nil value to the discussion and the local ones in particular would only distract from us having a conversation to gain an understanding of what the city is paying for various positions/services. Feel free to drop me a pm on the name blacking out topic and I'll be happy to chat so that we aren't taking over this thread  
 
You're definitely right that it could be much more valuable and cut and dry if there were direct comparables. The best-case scenario is that this feeds into a discussion about how Brandon salaries compare to those communities and how any given job is more demanding, less demanding or similar depending on the community and one's own opinions. The worst is that we get a better understanding of what's being paid to help make this city tick.  
 
Private vs public comparison would also be valuable and is something that a few comments earlier in the thread have spoken to from one person's viewpoint. Just not sure you'd find the data to go very far with it other than maybe generalized averages for some jobs...  
 
Edited by Adam, 2012-01-05 12:07:07

 
Page1 23Next>


 Invite a friend to join this discussion  Get E-mail/text alerts for this discussion    
Bookmark and Share
This thread has gone more than 90 days without a reply and has been closed as a result. Please feel free to start a new topic should you feel it is warranted.

   

 

Current Discussions

 
 
 

What's up with road, sidewalk & sewer repairs in your neighbourhood?
GET THE SCOOP WITH CITY FACTS

Municipal Election 2014:
Be Informed! Be Engaged!
Visit
BrandonVotes.ca

Classified Ads

 
 

Blogs

 
 

Local Business Directory

 
 
Tip A Wheat King Night
Brandon, Manitoba -- Montana's Cookhouse will host the 19th Annual Tip a Wheat King Night on Tuesday, November 4th. Members of the Wheat Kings will be turning in their sticks and skates for mugs, dinner plates and salad bowls as they help to raise money for the Kidney Foundation of Canada - Westman Chapter. All tips received by the players that will be working from 11:30 - 1 p.m. and from 5:00 - 9 p.m. will be donated to the Kidney Foundation. Serving lunch on November 4th will be Cale Jefferies, Chad Erb and Florida Panthers' second round draft choice Colby Robak. Waiting on tables for dinner will be veterans Matt Lowry, Keith Aulie, Brayden Schenn, Scott Glennie, Brodie Melnychuk and 16-year old rookie Mark Stone. In addition to waiting on tables, the players will be available for photographs, autographs and will be assisting the Kidney Foundation with a number of prize draws that evening. More..
JETSTREAM ROOFING
Need a new roof? Building a house? Have a leak? Jetstream Roofing does it all from Residential to Commercial Flat Roofing. Call today for a free quote or estimate! (204) 570-2864 More..
AFX Photography
Specializing in preserving your precious moments so you can relive them as if they were just yesterday, long into the future More..