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Topic: Democracy Threatened!
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Voice of Reason

6/7/2012 9:29:39 PM
Member since:
Apr 2009
Total posts:62
Democracy Threatened!

http://heroes.leadnow.ca/events/mervin-c-tweed-brandon-souris-mb/?action  
 
This is non-partisan. We're hoping Merv Tweed will actually do his job and stand up for his constituents. Not just bow to the whim of Steve Harper.  
 
Bill C-38 (the Budget Implementation Bill) affecting some 70 pieces of legislation that should matter to you. Especially environmental stuff.  
 
We, the local people, should be able to see if we can convince Merv to stand up for us, and against Harper. You know, show us some spine.  
 
What do you think?

 
 
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Opinionated

6/7/2012 9:35:50 PM
Member since:
May 2009
Total posts:2290
Good luck with that

This city is so Blue it is not even funny (not even a little bit). If the conservatives say jump, the majority of citizens around here say "how high". For the record, I agree with you, but I also know you won't get much support around here.

Degenerate108

6/7/2012 9:37:29 PM
Member since:
Dec 2008
Total posts:3377
.

  
Opinionated said "This city is so Blue it is not even funny (not even a little bit). If the conservatives say jump, the majority of citizens around here say "how high". For the record, I agree with you, but I also know you won't get much support around here. "

Pretty much this. Though i'll take part.  
 
Edit: once i know what my schedule is looking like. lol.  
 
 
Edited by degenerate108, 2012-06-07 21:38:34

Voice of Reason

6/7/2012 9:44:01 PM
Member since:
Apr 2009
Total posts:62
Blue, yeah...but

Don't you think we can make people take note. That we're not being listened to.  
 
Just show up. It'll make a point. Not everyone will jump!

BH

6/7/2012 9:46:15 PM
Member since:
Mar 2008
Total posts:651
...

  
Opinionated said "This city is so Blue it is not even funny (not even a little bit). If the conservatives say jump, the majority of citizens around here say "how high". For the record, I agree with you, but I also know you won't get much support around here. "

Your NDP leaning Mayor broke at least the spirit of the COI law, and your NDP government hasn't exactly been above the board in transparency either.  
 
When are you participating in those rallies?

Opinionated

6/7/2012 9:51:26 PM
Member since:
May 2009
Total posts:2290
huh?

  
BH said "
  
Opinionated said "This city is so Blue it is not even funny (not even a little bit). If the conservatives say jump, the majority of citizens around here say "how high". For the record, I agree with you, but I also know you won't get much support around here. "

Your NDP leaning Mayor broke at least the spirit of the COI law, and your NDP government hasn't exactly been above the board in transparency either.  
 
When are you participating in those rallies? "

Where did I say I was NDP? I vote based on the platforms presented each time.  
 
And honetly, I'm dissapointed in the Mayor, mainly because she has done exactly what the Conservatives did at the federal level. Promised transparency and did the exact opposite. If your mad at the mayor, I assume your also livid with the Cons?? The current federal governement is the farthest thing from transparent I can imagine. Why aren't you calling for the Priminister to resign like you are the mayor??

Voice of Reason

6/7/2012 9:56:42 PM
Member since:
Apr 2009
Total posts:62
We're not talking Brandon Here...

nor provincial. We're talking Canada!  
 
You don't like Shari fine!  
 
We are talking about Canadian values and how this Conservative CANADIAN government is just steamrolling everything through.  

BH

6/7/2012 10:04:34 PM
Member since:
Mar 2008
Total posts:651
....

  
Voice of Reason said "nor provincial. We're talking Canada!  
 
You don't like Shari fine!  
 
We are talking about Canadian values and how this Conservative CANADIAN government is just steamrolling everything through.  
"

So being absolutely horrid is ok as long as you aren't in charge at the top of the pyramid?  
 
I can't wait to go to work tomorrow.

BH

6/7/2012 10:07:26 PM
Member since:
Mar 2008
Total posts:651
48747374045

  
Opinionated said "
  
BH said "
  
Opinionated said "This city is so Blue it is not even funny (not even a little bit). If the conservatives say jump, the majority of citizens around here say "how high". For the record, I agree with you, but I also know you won't get much support around here. "

Your NDP leaning Mayor broke at least the spirit of the COI law, and your NDP government hasn't exactly been above the board in transparency either.  
 
When are you participating in those rallies? "

Where did I say I was NDP? I vote based on the platforms presented each time.  
 
And honetly, I'm dissapointed in the Mayor, mainly because she has done exactly what the Conservatives did at the federal level. Promised transparency and did the exact opposite. If your mad at the mayor, I assume your also livid with the Cons?? The current federal governement is the farthest thing from transparent I can imagine. Why aren't you calling for the Priminister to resign like you are the mayor?? "

Because the only thing I would hate more than a lying Prime Minister Harper is a lying Prime Minister Mulclair.  
 
Any islands for sale?  
 
Edited by BH, 2012-06-07 22:08:03

creeping

6/7/2012 10:15:19 PM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:219
so

What exactly are you protesting? I tried to read up on it but everything I opened was so slanted I couldn't figure out what exactly bill c 38 is.

Voice of Reason

6/7/2012 10:19:40 PM
Member since:
Apr 2009
Total posts:62
I don't know why you are trying to change the subject...,

  
Voice of Reason said "http://heroes.leadnow.ca/events/mervin-c-tweed-brandon-souris-mb/?action  
 
This is non-partisan. We're hoping Merv Tweed will actually do his job and stand up for his constituents. Not just bow to the whim of Steve Harper.  
 
Bill C-38 (the Budget Implementation Bill) affecting some 70 pieces of legislation that should matter to you. Especially environmental stuff.  
 
We, the local people, should be able to see if we can convince Merv to stand up for us, and against Harper. You know, show us some spine.  
 
What do you think? "

We are talking about Bill C-38, the Budget Implementation Bill. If you want to bitch about Shari, Greg, et al, do it somewhere else.  
 
We are talking democracy here. 77% of eligible voters (including those who didn't vote) rejected Harper and his ilk. But we have a Majority.  
 
If memory serves me, Harper said " We may have won a majority, but we must govern for all Canadians" (I'm paraphrasing) What changed?

Voice of Reason

6/7/2012 10:29:11 PM
Member since:
Apr 2009
Total posts:62
Bill 38 in a nutshell

should be implementing the budget. Instead, it changes a miriad of laws and legislation, from the Fisheries Act, Old Age Security, Employment Insurance, Charities, activism, and consolidates power in the Prime Minister's Office. Say pipeline a wants to run through your town and there is every evidence that it will have a negative effect. But caucus says "no worries" it'll go ahead. Yeah! That's democracy.

roger123

6/7/2012 10:40:00 PM
Member since:
Mar 2010
Total posts:15
Made up math

  
Voice of Reason said "
  
Voice of Reason said "http://heroes.leadnow.ca/events/mervin-c-tweed-brandon-souris-mb/?action  
 
This is non-partisan. We're hoping Merv Tweed will actually do his job and stand up for his constituents. Not just bow to the whim of Steve Harper.  
 
Bill C-38 (the Budget Implementation Bill) affecting some 70 pieces of legislation that should matter to you. Especially environmental stuff.  
 
We, the local people, should be able to see if we can convince Merv to stand up for us, and against Harper. You know, show us some spine.  
 
What do you think? "

We are talking about Bill C-38, the Budget Implementation Bill. If you want to bitch about Shari, Greg, et al, do it somewhere else.  
 
We are talking democracy here. 77% of eligible voters (including those who didn't vote) rejected Harper and his ilk. But we have a Majority.  
 
If memory serves me, Harper said " We may have won a majority, but we must govern for all Canadians" (I'm paraphrasing) What changed? "

Voice of Reason, If you are using the logic that 77% of voters rejected Harper I say the complete opposite. If you are assuming the the vote of the non voters in the election then you have to assume they do not care and support the winner. Therefore Harper got 39% plus 39% that didn't vote. So we could say that 78% of voters DID support him if we are going to be making up math here.

Voice of Reason

6/7/2012 11:48:09 PM
Member since:
Apr 2009
Total posts:62
No, I'm only stating facts...

I didn't say 77% of eligible voters rejected Harper. I said 77% DID NOT vote for Harper. I did not assume that they placed their alliances anywhere. My logic is sound, but I fear roger123's math is "made up" (apparently I DID say "rejected Harper") But still 77% didn't vote for him!!!  
 
Edited by Voice of Reason, 2012-06-08 00:04:47

TinFoilHattedChap

6/7/2012 11:58:05 PM
Member since:
Jul 2009
Total posts:85
oh no

dearie me democracy going to the reds and math doesn't make any sense anymore dearie dearie me what to do other than hunker down under the table with you tinfoil at maximum and hope nuclear radiation doesn't destroy everything

Cory KIBILAE

6/8/2012 12:06:46 AM
Member since:
Apr 2008
Total posts:768
Noble Gesture, BUT...

  
Voice of Reason said "http://heroes.leadnow.ca/events/mervin-c-tweed-brandon-souris-mb/?action  
 
This is non-partisan. We're hoping Merv Tweed will actually do his job and stand up for his constituents. Not just bow to the whim of Steve Harper.  
 
Bill C-38 (the Budget Implementation Bill) affecting some 70 pieces of legislation that should matter to you. Especially environmental stuff.  
 
We, the local people, should be able to see if we can convince Merv to stand up for us, and against Harper. You know, show us some spine.  
 
What do you think? "

...Brandon is Conservative country.  
Stephen Harper leads this Flock of Sheep.  
A people quite content with Life on their knees.  
 
Good luck with that.

Voice of Reason

6/8/2012 12:42:16 AM
Member since:
Apr 2009
Total posts:62
Yes, Noble...

and I don't figure Merv will be one of the "13 Heroes". He doesn't have it in him.  
 
I want to bring attention to what is being rammed down our throats.  
 
I don't care who you vote for. I want you to know about the current abuse of power and the devious way in which so many laws will be changed.  
 
I love Canada, but the Canada I love will be drastically changed. If you are comfortable living with that, because we are in Brandon Blue, fine. If not, make your voice heard.  
 
Noble or not, Wednesday or a future time, I'll be fighting for the Canada I believe in.

west

6/8/2012 5:57:31 AM
Member since:
Oct 2011
Total posts:1102
life on their knees???

  
Cory 2.0 said "
  
Voice of Reason said "http://heroes.leadnow.ca/events/mervin-c-tweed-brandon-souris-mb/?action  
 
This is non-partisan. We're hoping Merv Tweed will actually do his job and stand up for his constituents. Not just bow to the whim of Steve Harper.  
 
Bill C-38 (the Budget Implementation Bill) affecting some 70 pieces of legislation that should matter to you. Especially environmental stuff.  
 
We, the local people, should be able to see if we can convince Merv to stand up for us, and against Harper. You know, show us some spine.  
 
What do you think? "

...Brandon is Conservative country.  
Stephen Harper leads this Flock of Sheep.  
A people quite content with Life on their knees.  
 
Good luck with that. "

its funny...those of us that are pro.freedom..or pro Conservative are so hated by the socialists....life on our knees???conservatives believe in hard work,honesty,free enterprise,a justice system where criminals are punished and victims have rights,strong military,low taxes,safe streets for our children,less government,freedom....when the chips are down...you just watch and see who is on their knees!!Those are fightin words ,my socialist friend!

grem81

6/8/2012 6:19:07 AM
Member since:
Jan 2010
Total posts:742
^^^^^

Lol less government. That was good to good bill 38 is and the hidden non budget aspects is bullshit which grants the government to much power to oblige their corporate interests and backers over the average hard working person.

ICYMI

6/8/2012 6:20:44 AM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:2742
LMAO

Honesty? This Government has been anything but.  
 
Criminals punished? Even though it's been proven time and time again that what we WERE doing WAS working.  
 
Strong Military? Que the cuts! Or did you miss those?  
 
Less Government? These Conservatives increased the size by over 14%  
 
Freedom? Not for you and me my friend, look into what they have done and what they are doing.  
 
It's crazy they are getting away with this omnibus bill. Couple more years, hopefully there will be some leadership candidates to vote for.  
 
Funny how these Conservatives have been able to brainwash so many into thinking that they are the only party to believe in and stand up the above ideals, and do nothing but break them down. Their covered in teflon, none of the **** seems to stick.  
 
Every citizen believes, or wants to, believe in those.

creeping

6/8/2012 7:05:17 AM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:219
Frustrated

So, you have this thing that you are trying to garner support for, Hero's 13 or whatever it is called. In your attempt to gain support you slam the current government, and when asked what is this Bill C 38 the only answer I get is it will basically give the government the power to approve a pipeline going through town, even if the people of the town don't like it. I would assume there must be more, as I can't imagine people would be this out of shape about that one issue. But based on this thread, I guess it is the only thing.  
 
When will people understand that there a lot of us out there that do not follow politics down to Bill numbers and what they mean. And for those of us that don't, don't appreciate word choices that are over the top and used to scare people (we could lose our democricy, doesn't scare me at all, the facts might if someone would fill me in on them, without a slanted view). Then you get a thread like this that turns into a pissing match about political parties.  
 
Is there a reason why this thread could not have said Bill C 38 and how it could change our Canada, and then gone on to explain what it could change, without it seeming like nothing more than an attack on one political party? I would read that, and if what I read made sense would support it. However I cannot support something that's aim is to put fear into me. I figure, if it's as bad as they are making it out to be, then they could say that using non-fearing words and people would believe them. If they have to use fearing words, then they are making it to be bigger than it is. I know I am not alone in my thinking.  
I believe it would be possible to tell the facts of the bill without running down the party that is trying to bring it in. I like that we can disagree with our government and look to do things to prevent certain things they are doing. But there is a way of doing that to garner more support and ways of doing it to lose support. So far this thread has not gained my support.

VTB

6/8/2012 8:40:34 AM
Member since:
May 2011
Total posts:51
Be nice

If there could be a thread discussing a political topic and it actually stayed on topic instead of once again turning into a dribble of political party bashing, my faith in the wisdom of some Brandonites would be restored.  
 
This bill is bad, way to much like one the Americans would put through. Putting all of the mixed items into a take it or lose it bill is a very poor way to govern.

SJK

6/8/2012 8:47:02 AM
Member since:
Jul 2006
Total posts:4044
Ditto....

  
creeping said "So, you have this thing that you are trying to garner support for, Hero's 13 or whatever it is called. In your attempt to gain support you slam the current government, and when asked what is this Bill C 38 the only answer I get is it will basically give the government the power to approve a pipeline going through town, even if the people of the town don't like it. I would assume there must be more, as I can't imagine people would be this out of shape about that one issue. But based on this thread, I guess it is the only thing.  
 
When will people understand that there a lot of us out there that do not follow politics down to Bill numbers and what they mean. And for those of us that don't, don't appreciate word choices that are over the top and used to scare people (we could lose our democricy, doesn't scare me at all, the facts might if someone would fill me in on them, without a slanted view). Then you get a thread like this that turns into a pissing match about political parties.  
 
Is there a reason why this thread could not have said Bill C 38 and how it could change our Canada, and then gone on to explain what it could change, without it seeming like nothing more than an attack on one political party? I would read that, and if what I read made sense would support it. However I cannot support something that's aim is to put fear into me. I figure, if it's as bad as they are making it out to be, then they could say that using non-fearing words and people would believe them. If they have to use fearing words, then they are making it to be bigger than it is. I know I am not alone in my thinking.  
I believe it would be possible to tell the facts of the bill without running down the party that is trying to bring it in. I like that we can disagree with our government and look to do things to prevent certain things they are doing. But there is a way of doing that to garner more support and ways of doing it to lose support. So far this thread has not gained my support. "

To the OP, outline for us what exactly you are protesting against cause I still don't get (or maybe you don't) what exactly your issue is? Generalizations don't work for me.

Opinionated

6/8/2012 8:56:44 AM
Member since:
May 2009
Total posts:2290
You must be mighty ashamed and embarrased

  
west said "
  
Cory 2.0 said "
  
Voice of Reason said "http://heroes.leadnow.ca/events/mervin-c-tweed-brandon-souris-mb/?action  
 
This is non-partisan. We're hoping Merv Tweed will actually do his job and stand up for his constituents. Not just bow to the whim of Steve Harper.  
 
Bill C-38 (the Budget Implementation Bill) affecting some 70 pieces of legislation that should matter to you. Especially environmental stuff.  
 
We, the local people, should be able to see if we can convince Merv to stand up for us, and against Harper. You know, show us some spine.  
 
What do you think? "

...Brandon is Conservative country.  
Stephen Harper leads this Flock of Sheep.  
A people quite content with Life on their knees.  
 
Good luck with that. "

its funny...those of us that are pro.freedom..or pro Conservative are so hated by the socialists....life on our knees???conservatives believe in hard work,honesty,free enterprise,a justice system where criminals are punished and victims have rights,strong military,low taxes,safe streets for our children,less government,freedom....when the chips are down...you just watch and see who is on their knees!!Those are fightin words ,my socialist friend! "

about the current federal government if those are the things you stand for, because it sure doesn't seem like that's what they stand for. They hire the criminals, increase the government, greatly increase the deficit, close jails, etc., etc. Ready to jump ship yet?

JR

6/8/2012 9:11:47 AM
Member since:
Nov 2007
Total posts:1446
From the man himself

This is a compelling argument against the type of omnibus bill that C-38 is. This statement was made in the House of Commons during debate on a past omnibus-type budget bill. The bill being debated at the time was not nearly as far-reaching or potentially destructive to Canada overall as the current one before the House.  
 
First, there is a lack of relevancy of these issues. The omnibus bill we have before us attempts to amend several different existing laws.  
 
Second, in the interest of democracy I ask: How can members represent their constituents on these various areas when they are forced to vote in a block on such legislation and on such concerns?  
 
Stephen Harper, 1994
 
 
An excellent argument against C-38. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it...  

Dr.Who

6/8/2012 9:13:24 AM
Member since:
Jun 2011
Total posts:1608
Omnibus bill

this bill is the extreme in omnibus bills. It covers from the budget to how scientists and charities deal with the government. It is shutting down research stations and focus groups put in place to advise the government. It takes the power of change from the House of Commons and puts it in the hands of cabinet. It is so big that even the ministers don't know what it all contains.  
When Harper was in opposition he railed the Liberals for having a too comprehensive budget. It was 48 pages long. This "Budget" bill is over 480 pages long. Hypocrisy at its best here.  
http://www.cpj.ca/en/content/bill-c-38-omnibus-any-other-name  
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/bill-c-38-gets-high-profile-opposition-four-144216603.html

cynic

6/8/2012 9:58:43 AM
Member since:
Nov 2011
Total posts:52
right

To think that Merv Tweed,Robert Sopuck,or any other con MP would be allowed to vote against Harper or even express an opinion that differs from the party line is laughable. Inky Mark was the last free thinking MP they had and they got rid of him.Sopuck is supposed to be an environmentalist but he's gone along with every cut to those programs.

Puffwad

6/8/2012 9:58:47 AM
Member since:
Dec 2007
Total posts:1172
-.97.-

 
Given that SH has surrounded himself with what are essentially cheerleaders rather than individuals with their own point of view ...  
 
Isn't this bill just saving tax payers money and time. If we were to separate and debate each of the individual items that 'shouldn't be a part of this bill' it would take forever and we would end up with the same result!  
 
Like it or not the Conservatives have a majority that will tow the line when told to do so!  
 
Edited by Puffwad, 2012-06-08 10:01:19

Brodie

6/8/2012 10:12:31 AM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:212
leftism

Whenever a left leaning person doesn't like legislation being passed, 'democracy ' is being threatened.  
 
The majority of people who did vote in the last federal election voted conservative. How is democracy threatened?

ash5555

6/8/2012 10:26:55 AM
Member since:
Jul 2009
Total posts:211
77%

perhaps 77% of eligible voters didn't vote for Harper - but that 77% was split between the NDP, Liberals, Bloc and Green or nobody. Therefore - more people believed in the Conservatives than any other party- hence why Harper won a majority. If the NDP would have won a majority - we could also say that 77% rejected them. so therefore - your arguement of 77% rejecting Harper has no validity.  
 
 
 
Edited by ash5555, 2012-06-08 10:31:32

 
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