http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/edmonton-twins-2-found-starved-beaten  
 
Knowing how our justice system works they will not get near what they deserve for this.

Edited by admin, 2012-06-14 10:54:52. Reason: Change of title to be more specific of topic

omg that makes me sick

is wrong with people these days?They both should be sterilized.We really need tougher laws in Canada.

that is terrible!! 27 months and weighing 13 pounds?? what is wrong with people???

How could someone not notice?

Maybe they didnt ALLOW the grand parents in for visits. Lots of young adults are treating the Grand Parents with this "non-visiting rights" - its very close to Black mail I think.  
 
They also had a 3 year old son - who is now in Foster Care.  
 
Another variable to me - is if there is a "Home Birth" do births get documented, and is anyone else aware that there has been a birth? Obviously these parents had NOT been taking their children to see a family doctor either - so how do these babes get records? Sorry - if I went slightly off topic - but i see many variables here.

thats very sad

:'(

i wish it were possible to lock up the parents and starve them until they were half of their recommended body weight, just like the kids. they could experience what they did to their own children and know how it felt.

She had s child come to her in similar condition! 13 lbs, bruises on her wrists, ankles etc. Fear of being changed or bathed due to inappropriate touching by her tween babysitters. still lived on regular cow milk, not formula! She had zero body fat, zero muscle tone, could not sit up or hold up her own head, never learned how to chew or even hold good in her mouth, she was 9 months old when she came to my mom as a Emergency foster placement. The doctors said she was less than 2 wks away from dying, due to failure to thrive, in which a baby just dies due to no human affection and interaction.  
 
We worked so hard teaching her many things. The nutritionist even instructed us to feed her oatmeal with butter, to help build her body fat stores, she had her lil hip bones protruding! Just made me sad to help care for her.  
 
So many deserving childless couples out in the world!!

...yes - thank you for the PM on this. If parents neglect to FEED their children, chances are they neglected to do other things as well. IE as in registering them, iff there was a home birth.  
 
Definately happy the children are all being looked after now by other people. These parents, will be held accountable..............eventually.

Dad@home said "is wrong with people these days?They both should be sterilized.We really need tougher laws in Canada. "

You think we'd be that responsible here? No, let's subsidize their endless stream of unwanted and incapable offspring instead, while at the same time shrinking the pool of the able due to overtaxation and the necessity of working more to support the former.

Oh boy, sterilizing people the government thinks are "unwanted" and "incapable," didn't the Nazis try that?  
 
You know, for how much people talk about how they love that Canada is a free country, some people sure are in a rush to throw it away

Isn't there a young boy that is completely unharmed?  
Maybe there is more to this story than these people should never have been parents?!

Dave Barnesky said "Oh boy, sterilizing people the government thinks are "unwanted" and "incapable," didn't the Nazis try that?     You know, for how much people talk about how they love that Canada is a free country, some people sure are in a rush to throw it away "

You need misplaced comparisons from an unrelated, two decade-long regime in another country to tell you that children treated this way are unwanted and that their parents are incapable?

BullyBreed said "    Dave Barnesky said "Oh boy, sterilizing people the government thinks are "unwanted" and "incapable," didn't the Nazis try that?     You know, for how much people talk about how they love that Canada is a free country, some people sure are in a rush to throw it away " You need misplaced comparisons from an unrelated, two decade-long regime in another country to tell you that children treated this way are unwanted and that their parents are incapable? "

Nah, those people just reached the same conclusions you did when it came to the problem of some parents being incapable - forced sterilization. Tell me, how are you going to tell ahead of time who deserves to have kids and who doesn't? Should we have a government bureau that we have to register at and take tests from?  
 
See how absurd this kind of thing is? Given what you had posted in the Racism in Brandon thread I created, its not surprising you support eugenics. I'm on to you.

Exactly where does it say these children were born at home without any sort of care provider?  
 
Homebirth is regulated in Manitoba... ALL homebirths are reported and legally documented.  
 
I am failing to see how having a homebirth led to these twins being abused so badly by their parents?  
Someone want to send me the quote that states they were born at home and not registered / documented in the 'system' and how it relates to bad parenting choices.

Where does the article say anything about grandparents?  
 
Seems like a lot of missing posts...why are they all getting deleted all the time??  
 
Either way, maybe the grandparents wanted to have nothing to do with the kids. Sad yes, but I've seen it happen.

What I wonder is; How could someone not notice? Wouldn't there be someone, anyone around who would think there is something not right?! Not to put blame on anyone but these parents but are we all so wrapped up in our lives that we wouldnt notice something like this if it was our neighbor or reletive? I like to believe I would do something. Its always after the fact that a neighbor or someone close to them says that they thought something was off but didnt do anything or say anything. What would you do if you suspected someone around you was doing something like this? And maybe not even with a child, there has been a lot of press about elder abuse happening as well. Would you speak up?

there_is_no_truth said "What I wonder is; How could someone not notice? Wouldn't there be someone, anyone around who would think there is something not right?! Not to put blame on anyone but these parents but are we all so wrapped up in our lives that we wouldnt notice something like this if it was our neighbor or reletive? I like to believe I would do something. Its always after the fact that a neighbor or someone close to them says that they thought something was off but didnt do anything or say anything. What would you do if you suspected someone around you was doing something like this? And maybe not even with a child, there has been a lot of press about elder abuse happening as well. Would you speak up? "

That is what I was saying as well - but in my own way. Definately, if I had been their grandparent, I would have intervened. And, if they had been taken to the doctor, he/she would have intervened.  
 
Who really knows all the details to this? Maybe they lived out in the bush somewhere......and the births were never documented.  
 
See, I refer to "variables". In every post i make, I can see "variables" - I do not think in "black and white" like alot do. There are lots of factors to consider.

Dave Barnesky said "    BullyBreed said "    Dave Barnesky said "Oh boy, sterilizing people the government thinks are "unwanted" and "incapable," didn't the Nazis try that?     You know, for how much people talk about how they love that Canada is a free country, some people sure are in a rush to throw it away " You need misplaced comparisons from an unrelated, two decade-long regime in another country to tell you that children treated this way are unwanted and that their parents are incapable? " Nah, those people just reached the same conclusions you did when it came to the problem of some parents being incapable - forced sterilization. Tell me, how are you going to tell ahead of time who deserves to have kids and who doesn't? Should we have a government bureau that we have to register at and take tests from?     See how absurd this kind of thing is? Given what you had posted in the Racism in Brandon thread I created, its not surprising you support eugenics. I'm on to you. "

I'm not going to type my entire response again since it might get deleted, too. The short summary is look farther into so-called 'eugenics' than der boogeymen (Singapore, for example) and think outside the box.

Anyone have an update on the twins?  
 
I was on life support I believe?

BullyBreed said "    Dave Barnesky said "    BullyBreed said "    Dave Barnesky said "Oh boy, sterilizing people the government thinks are "unwanted" and "incapable," didn't the Nazis try that?     You know, for how much people talk about how they love that Canada is a free country, some people sure are in a rush to throw it away " You need misplaced comparisons from an unrelated, two decade-long regime in another country to tell you that children treated this way are unwanted and that their parents are incapable? " Nah, those people just reached the same conclusions you did when it came to the problem of some parents being incapable - forced sterilization. Tell me, how are you going to tell ahead of time who deserves to have kids and who doesn't? Should we have a government bureau that we have to register at and take tests from?     See how absurd this kind of thing is? Given what you had posted in the Racism in Brandon thread I created, its not surprising you support eugenics. I'm on to you. " I'm not going to type my entire response again since it might get deleted, too. The short summary is look farther into so-called 'eugenics' than der boogeymen (Singapore, for example) and think outside the box. "

You really want to live in a society where the government targets certain people and groups for forced medical procedures?  
 
Do you really want to live in a society where people's relationships are vetted by government bureaucrats?  
 
Thats where eugenics gets us, and its been tried in this country with terrifying results:  
 
"Youths, minorities, and women were sterilized in disproportionately high numbers. Minors, because of their legal dependency on adults, were almost always assigned as "mental defectives", thus bypassing the parental consent requirement. Albertan Aboriginal people and Métis, regardless of age, were also targeted. Aboriginal people represented only 2.5% of the general population in Alberta, but made up 6% of the institutionalized population. Towards the end of Alberta's sterilization program, Aboriginal people and Métis made up 25% of the sterilizations performed. Furthermore, those of Aboriginal ancestry were disproportionately assigned the "mentally deficient" rating, which denied them their legal rights and made them eligible for sterilization without consent. Women, particularly women who were young, poor, and unmarried, were also disproportionately represented: they were thought to be at high risk for prostitution or at the very least promiscuity, activities suspected of breeding further immorality. While it was conceded that sterilization would not change the behavior of these women, sterilization was intended to prevent them from bearing similarly defective progeny."  
 
Eugenics was a bad idea when we tried in the past, it violates people's rights, it makes assumptions about people's entire life by a snapshot in time (people are often very different at age 35 than they were at 20, don't take away people's ability to have children), its thinly veiled racism in practice, and its not something that we should even be thinking of going back to.

sharon kucher said "Anyone have an update on the twins?     I was on life support I believe? "

this is all I found today.......maybe someone else has more current info  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/06/13/edmonton-malnourished-twins.html

start your own thread.lol. A valid point though, no society as a whole will ever have a unanimous decision in what kind of cereal is best, let alone what to do with criminals...Unless they have all been brainwashed to think the same... O_O  
Then we'd pretty much be the equivalent of Zombies....  
 
 
BAAACK on topic:  
 
I hope those children end up in a proper and loving home! Shame on those people!  
 
 
 

Dave Barnesky said "    BullyBreed said "    Dave Barnesky said "    BullyBreed said "    Dave Barnesky said "Oh boy, sterilizing people the government thinks are "unwanted" and "incapable," didn't the Nazis try that?     You know, for how much people talk about how they love that Canada is a free country, some people sure are in a rush to throw it away " You need misplaced comparisons from an unrelated, two decade-long regime in another country to tell you that children treated this way are unwanted and that their parents are incapable? " Nah, those people just reached the same conclusions you did when it came to the problem of some parents being incapable - forced sterilization. Tell me, how are you going to tell ahead of time who deserves to have kids and who doesn't? Should we have a government bureau that we have to register at and take tests from?     See how absurd this kind of thing is? Given what you had posted in the Racism in Brandon thread I created, its not surprising you support eugenics. I'm on to you. " I'm not going to type my entire response again since it might get deleted, too. The short summary is look farther into so-called 'eugenics' than der boogeymen (Singapore, for example) and think outside the box. " You really want to live in a society where the government targets certain people and groups for forced medical procedures?     Do you really want to live in a society where people's relationships are vetted by government bureaucrats?     Thats where eugenics gets us, and its been tried in this country with terrifying results:     "Youths, minorities, and women were sterilized in disproportionately high numbers. Minors, because of their legal dependency on adults, were almost always assigned as "mental defectives", thus bypassing the parental consent requirement. Albertan Aboriginal people and Métis, regardless of age, were also targeted. Aboriginal people represented only 2.5% of the general population in Alberta, but made up 6% of the institutionalized population. Towards the end of Alberta's sterilization program, Aboriginal people and Métis made up 25% of the sterilizations performed. Furthermore, those of Aboriginal ancestry were disproportionately assigned the "mentally deficient" rating, which denied them their legal rights and made them eligible for sterilization without consent. Women, particularly women who were young, poor, and unmarried, were also disproportionately represented: they were thought to be at high risk for prostitution or at the very least promiscuity, activities suspected of breeding further immorality. While it was conceded that sterilization would not change the behavior of these women, sterilization was intended to prevent them from bearing similarly defective progeny."     Eugenics was a bad idea when we tried in the past, it violates people's rights, it makes assumptions about people's entire life by a snapshot in time (people are often very different at age 35 than they were at 20, don't take away people's ability to have children), its thinly veiled racism in practice, and its not something that we should even be thinking of going back to. "

people are often very different at age 35 than they were at 20, don't take away people's ability to have children  
In some instances, reversible birth control is set in the teen years and can be removed when people are proven to be ready for parenthood.  
Other suggestions have been one-time payouts for sterilization which studies have shown to be more cost effective than the cyclical social bureaucracy we currently have...not that cost effectiveness has seemed like a priority for quite a few decades.

thats so sad. I hope these kids end up in a loving home!