Discussions

And what about the old Canadians who don’t wear a poppy or donate or go to a service or watch one or take a moment of silence at 11?  
 
“You people ....that don’t wear a poppy....” is all he needed to say IMO

Yes it was clear he was talking about immigrants. He makes an assumption that the immigrants are not wearing poppies. Are they? Aren't they? I don't know. Maybe he did a study or a poll or something?

So saying they like our milk and honey and that they should spend a couple bucks on a poppy? That's negative to people? Whats happening in society these days lol, this is beyond pathetic that people are upset at this.

We need to be able to say whatever is on our minds. Freedom of expression is in The Charter. Expression would i:nclude speech. Polite, happy, friendly speech does not need to be protected. It's the kind of speech that somebody else may not like that needs to be protected. Without freedom of speech you do not have a free country. A sad time in Canada!  
 
I've always liked Don Cherry. I didn't always agree with him about everything, of course, but I agreed with him more often than I didn't.  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2019-11-11 21:52:46

I believe the issue is because he is insinuating that it’s only those that come to this country for our bread and honey that are the problem....when in actuality, his rant should be directed towards ANYONE that doesn’t wear a poppy or support our veterans and troops.  
 
Personally, I agree with his rant....I just don’t agree with targeting a specific group when it’s actually many groups that don’t wear a poppy.  
 
Do I think he should have lost his job? I don’t know..not up for me to decide. I believe he has said worse so maybe it was just  
the straw that broke the camels back?

has expressed more racist and hurtful sentiments than any other person in my lifetime however unless some huge scandal causes him to resign then I'm afraid he'll be president till 2024. God help all of us and spare us this outcome. I know I'm off topic so I better shut up.

I believe the tipping point was the massive floor of complaints to the CBSC, and more importantly the flood of complaints to the advertisers on HNIC. Money talks.

I don’t agree with what he said, and we all misspeak from time to time. I don’t think it was a firing offence. Our society forgives some sometimes and others we don’t.

I guess I’m a “you people” person this year, I didnt buy a poppy, because I didn’t go out of my way to look for a place that was selling them, and maybe I was busy enough that I had other things I was doing. Another things is I don’t attend Services on this day.  
My life has allowed me to know and remember people who fought in both World wars, not only those who served but family members as well, and there are so many days that I think about the sacrifices that so many made for our freedom. Some made the ultimate sacrifice of giving their life, others lived lives that were changed by injuries of war, both mentally and physically. Others lived with the loss of family members, which included siblings or parents or favorite relatives.  
Don Cherry’s comment is one of those comments where words do matter, for myself the comment did target certain people, but maybe he should understand that it just isn’t a poppy that defines our feelings on this day, or even other days of the year, when we reflect on our freedoms.  
I’ve read most of the comments, and hope that this isn’t looked at sucking up, but Adam’s comment summed up many of my feelings, not only about today and it’s happening, but the direction we seem to be going toward as a divide nation.

Money talks. I have a lot of respect for Don Cherry...even though i didn’t always approve with the method that he presented his opinion with, i pretty much always agreed with what he said. Very knowledgeable man. He understood that North America has endless money to spend on entertainment... movies, sports, singers, dancers, Vegas, cruises, you name it, entertainment is BIG business. Like him or not, he was truly entertaining every night, jackets i:ncluded. If he sat there with the mindless drivel that is so common in sports commentary he wouldn’t have kept his job for 38 years. Him losing his job because of this is a sad commentary of how over sensitive our politically correct world is.

Is there a link that I can watch the video of what he actually said, in it's entirety?

...awhile ago it was  
Sticks and stones will break may break my bones  
but names will never hurt me.  
 
Only in Canada do we hold a sportscaster's behavior above our Prime Minister

“You love our way of life, you love our milk and honey. At least you could pay a couple of bucks for a poppy or something like that. These guys pay for your way of life that you enjoy in Canada, these guys paid the biggest price,” Cherry said, emphasizing the “you” with numerous finger jabs at the camera.  
 
 
Or, just google it - lots of video's on the news stories.  
 
Edited by Brenda..., 2019-11-12 05:33:26

Yes Don Cherry is opinionated and passionate in his beliefs. That is who he is. The network's goal is to make big bucks. If the listeners of the network roar into outrage over Don Cherry's comments then the network figures they will stop watching their network. Simple solution is to fire Don Cherry. But actually what REALLY happened with this scenario? The teachable moment of peace and compassion was lost for both Don Cherry and the network. Don Cherry now walks away a bitter old man. The network sighs a sigh of relief that their "problem child" is now history and begins to seek other ways of making a profit. The issues polarizes Canadian even further than two days ago. Is this really what we want for Canada? I believe not. Instead of being fired, the network should have sat down with Don Cherry and brought in an Elder... bringing in someone like Rabbi Bulka to bring kindness and peace to both Don Cherry and the network. This would have been the Canada I know.  
 
Globe and Mail newspaper 12 Nov 19: Rabbi Bulka's Benediction at the Remembrance Day Service National War Memorial: “Let us continue to make Canada worthy of their dedication and sacrifice, a country in which respect, harmony, inclusion, responsibility and kindness fill the air,” Rabbi Reuven Bulka told the assembled crowd, speaking of those who had given their lives for Canada.  
 
He went on to note that this year marked the 75th anniversary of D-Day, when Canada and its allies launched a massive amphibious assault on France that marked the beginning of the end of Nazi Germany in the Second World War, before suggesting every day should be a D-Day of sorts.  
 
“Let us dazzle with a dynamic devotion to our destiny as a country determined in its dedication to the dignified diversity of its people as we delight in the delivery of deferential decency with discipline and diligence to assure we can all the live Canadian dream,” he said."

I wore a poppy with pride, so did all of my family. My grandfather fought during the second world war and was lucky enough to survive Burma and come home all be it with what we now call PTSD.. When I saw the clip in question I wondered what all of the fuss was about. Yes Don should have used his words more carefully but he didn’t. Anyone can just turn the show off. This is a storm in a tea cup in a supposedly free speaking country. If there is going to be such a fuss over Don’s poorly chosen wording then I really think that we should remove all of the profanity on the tv and in movies, censor and control the internet and ban violent video games.

that getting fired will leave Don Cherry a bitter old man as previous poster stated, lol At least he is a man of his words, he said them , he owns them and I admire him for that.  
Don had a chance to apologize and he could be back on Coach's Croner, he chose not to.  
Ron McLean if you watch the clip nodded his head in agreement and gave a thumbs up to Don's words. Being a much younger man I guess Ron caved to the demands of apologizing so he can still be on HNIC.  
The only people who should be offended by 'Poppygate' should be the ones not wearing a poppy. Thank goodness I was wearing one but if I didn't have one I would feel ashamed of myself.

Agreed!

also agreed

is 100% correct and I totally agree with his comments. I respect the fact that he stands behind and defends his words. There are too many people in the world that have nothing better to do than create controversy, either to further their own agenda, or are maybe bored with their lives and want to stir the pot for entertainment. Need more people like Don Cherry in the world that say what needs to be said and hopefully people will stop reading into it what they want to hear. Support and remember our Veterans.

Ever notice how our media always spins stories to suit their agendas. Last night they led with the Don Cherry story and interviewed mainly people opposed to Don's comments and how terrible they led us to believe it was.  
Then their next story was our Remembrance Day Ceremonies and their coverage led us to feel proud of our veteran's sacrifices in defending democracy, freedom and free speech.  
Can't have it both ways

I also thought that it was funny how none of the media outlets even mentioned all that Don has done for our great Military over the years.  
Don has gone overseas during Christmas just to be with the troops and keep their moral up when they are away from their loved ones.  
When was the last time you seen any media person taking time to go overseas show their support for the troops?

"Everybody in Canada should wear a poppy to honour our fallen soldiers.” - Don Cherry  
 
Had he said that instead of "you people", this wouldn't even be news.  
 
Obviously, his remarks were divisive and inappropriate.  
 
Marpet

Agreed. Some people are just not good at articulating their thoughts neatly and precisely.  
 
Is that an offensive worth firing someone for? Some would say depends on the job. A translator, yes. A surgeon, no. A tv person, I would say maybe an explanation for intent to be given first. When commenting later on it, Don Cherry once again spoke on the lack of poppy wearing was his concern but didn’t clarify his phrase “you people who come here”  
 
Edited by Seana-T, 2019-11-12 11:20:51

He was trying to say more people should wear poppies, which I don’t think anyone would disagree with. But in typical Don Cherry fashion he worded it about as terribly as he could.

I will miss seeing his fancy jackets. Personally, I choose to take the more positive assumption and assume he meant to say, as Melvinsfan said, “you thankless people”. Not as a target to all people who come to Canada but just to thankless people who chose not to appreciate the sacrifice others have given.  
 
I am thankful myself but I definitely know that when I buy a poppy and stick it to my jacket I usually lose it by the end of the day no matter how I fasten it. If I’m lucky I get three days out of it. I have gone through 6 poppies one year. I usually wait until the actual day before I start wearing it so that way I have something to actually wear on the day of.  
 
Edited by Seana-T, 2019-11-12 12:00:03

No they weren't.  
 
If you have to address a group of people how do you say it? Example, a group of people outside a convenience store - "See those people standing over there...." . Is that divisive? Is that rude? No. Is what Don said rude? No. I guess maybe in this snowflake society we live in where looking at someone gives them so much PTSD they need to hide in a safe space and cuddle their stuffed animals that calling a group of people "You people" is offensive in some way. I just don't see it.  
 
The same people arguing that Don was "divisive" or "racist", are they the same ones that support our PM for his actions?  
 
The only dividing that's happening is the whiners that cant handle words anymore, trying to sensor EVERYTHING in society, they are the ones that causing this.

Except he didn't say, "see those people over there...". His precise words were, at least to me, unambiguous. He was talking specifically about immigrants, whether that was intentional or not.  
 
First, he said, "you people", suggesting people he considers different from himself.  
 
Secondly, he said, "that come here", which indicates people not from where he's from.  
 
Third, he said, "you love our way of life", which again suggests people he considers different from himself.  
 
And lastly (and most importantly, and I'm not sure many people understand this reference), he said, "you love our milk and honey". That is a clear reference to the Bible, specifically to the Old Testament where God promises his Chosen People the land of Israel, the "land of milk and honey". There's other inferences you can make (some of which may apply, many probably won't anywhere but our imaginations), but I think the implication is clear - he considers Canada as a Promised Land of sorts, where only the Chosen should be. They're loving OUR milk and honey.  
 
I'm pretty tolerant of Don Cherry, and of non-politically correct speech as a whole (because it annoys me that everything needs to be so PC these days lest we offend someone), but that fourth point and all it implies did it for me.

Yes - he was obviously speaking about immigrants. There are some grammatical arguments that could leave room for some doubt but, let's be honest, he was talking about immigrants.  
 
So - You immigrants that come here love our milk and honey. Well, I think it is pretty standard belief that people come here looking for a better life. I don't know if I would go biblical on the milk and honey reference or if it was just a reference for a better life.  
 
So, we have someone with no social graces saying that when he walks through downtown Toronto, he wishes he saw more immigrants wearing poppies. That is exactly what he said using less politically correct language. His direct observation. His opinion. Not offensive.

You've made a good point, but I think this truly is a case of where the choice of words matter. I'm forever telling my children, "it's not what you said, but how you said it".  
 
If we use an example of very unflattering pants on someone, you can say, "Honey, I'm not sure those are the right pants for that outfit", or you can say, "OMG!! Those are horrendous!! What were you thinking when you bought those???"  
 
A terrible example, I know, but my point is both are expressing variations of "those pants looks terrible". However, one is attempting to be kind, and the other is not. One potentially leads to productive discussion ("What's wrong with them? What pants should I wear? But didn't you buy those for me...?"), where one is just insulting and shuts the conversation down.  
 
You can say, "I wish more immigrants would wear a poppy", which could lead to a really useful discussion about why maybe many immigrants don't, and maybe find a way to encourage it.  
 
But what he said effectively shuts down the discussion, which is counterintuitive considering the amount of discussion it's generated! But I have yet to see a productive discussion as whether his assertion is true: if it is true, what are the reasons for it: is a regional thing or Canada-wide: what can we do to encourage poppy-wearning: is it a problem unique to immigrants or is a general cultural trend? If it's a cultural trend, is it due to immigration or another reason altogether, such as generational as most immigrants are now millenials. Etc Etc.  
 
I think the image of "milk and honey" invokes a certain connotation of perceiving the immigrants as invaders, marauders. The cultural reference, rooted in the Jewish-Christian ethos, makes that suggestion based on the history of that concept. An unfortunate choice of words? Perhaps. He loves to be controversial, so maybe it was going for maximum effect and it backfired.

I believe you make some very good points as well. Allowing for the possibility that he was fired not for what he said but how he said it seems plausible. My biggest concern then is that free speech is eroding. Don Cherry, like him or hate him, made a career that many profited from by being tactless. Now he is fired for making a personal observation and being who he has been encouraged to be for decades.