Discussions

Just an example of the need for an 8th St. traffic bridge. Not sure what Council is thinking. Just suck it up and do it!!  
Just wait until construction starts on the 18th Street bridge. Going to be an even bigger mess to try to get north/south.  
Honestly, I don’t get it.

Please tell me how an 8th street traffic bridge would make this situation better. They already have the stop signs covered on Parker to keep traffic flowing. Cars coming over the 8th street bridge would just be piling up at stop signs.  
 
Also when the 18th st bridge is being done they plan to run 1 lane north and 1 lane south throughout construction just like 1st street. I guess it’s a good thing we have a beautiful 4 lane bridge on first street that moves bucket loads of cars

What has the construction got to do with 18th street right now? How would a bridge on 8th help? The construction is after the bridge by Toyota? It makes me chuckle at these "Oh my god the sky is falling!" posts. Fire hall built by the 40. Wasn't the scare that people were going to be dying due to slow response times in the city and lawsuits would ignite? Has there been a death resulting in the placement yet? The rebuild of the 1st st bridge. Jesus how did it get built with no 8th st bridge? Crap now we have 4 lanes instead of 3 like 18th to handle the traffic. The chaos that is about to ensue!!

how would the 8th St bridge help? If anything it would add to congestion since they still have to detour to get around the construction.

It would help all the people who live on the east side of 18th between the bridges.

_water_ said "It would help all the people who live on the east side of 18th between the bridges. "

whoever lives in the area.. should be considered lucky to even have some sort of pedestrian bridge put in.  
 
IMO, even that is a waste of tax dollars, and absolutely nothing should be replaced where the 8th st bridge was.

As someone who lives in the middle of these detours I can say that the level of traffic has gone down every day, so it isn’t as bad as it first seemed. That said, if the 8th St bridge still existed I would use it multiple times a day, so I do miss having it.

redwine1966 said "Just an example of the need for an 8th St. traffic bridge. Not sure what Council is thinking. Just suck it up and do it!!   Just wait until construction starts on the 18th Street bridge. Going to be an even bigger mess to try to get north/south.   Honestly, I don’t get it. "

The vehicular bridge isssue decision for the 8th Street Bridge is done and will not be replaced as a traffic bridge. Although many people with a vested interest or living in the area would have liked to see one, it was going to come at a cost to taxpayers of approximately 30-35 million plus.  
 
The City of Brandon gave many people opportunities to voice their concerns and interests over many public discussion venues, plus anybody can contact their area councillor with concerns. There were also invites to the public to view the conceptual images of proposed options. We elect our City Council to make these decisions and they invited public input.  
 
In theory, a vehicular bridge replacement would have been great, but not fiscally responsible.  
 
Back to the topic, the 18th Street construction is just something that the citizens of Brandon will get through, just like any other major construction project.

A couple of weeks ago a painting crew spend a week or so, working day and night to re-paint the sharrows, "share the road" icons on Lorne Ave. E. right over potholes and dirt. The next week a crew is resurfacing Lorne Ave. E. and scraping off all of those nice new sharrows. Is no one paying any attention at all?

What makes you think there lucky to have at least have pedestrian bridge? Folks Have to drive from as far as 5th street north to get to 18th, just to turn back around and head back east on the other side of the trackst. I realize it’s a small portion of the city in the grand scheme of things. However, these people driving an extra 20 blocks a day for no reason seems like a waste of gas, time and money. Same goes for walking. A walking bridge would be fantastic for the people that have to walk this far just to get into downtown! However, why not make it a vehicle bridge at the same time. Just because you don’t live in the area and deal with the issue everyday does not make it an issue this city has.

Please explain of what exactly are you getting from down town? This is the part I would like to understand. Is it the bars and vendors? Two are now gone from fire down there, but you people still have the Forty to walk to. Most public services can be achieved on-line. Banking is the same. Food and Pharmacy can be delivered and surely you don''t need to see the doctor every day? There hasn''t been a grocery store there in a generation and whatever grocery selection there would probably match to that of the Husky and the Co-op. So what is it? ...What are we missing that requires the city of Brandon to provide any sort of bridge that the payments will probably outlast the lifetime before the next re-fit/overhaul? This neighbourhood hasn''t seen any significant growth with development or numbers when compared to other sections of town, so another question would be... Will any bridge change the economic/civic development of the "Flats" or improve the existing safety and the quality of life for THE MAJORITY OF THE COMMUNITY.  
 
...And please don''t use the ambulance excuse. There are plenty of other neighbourhoods that both have just as long or longer wait for emergency arrival to the scene and destination to the hospital (North Hill, Hamilton Heights, Highland Park, Kirkcaldy Heights, Far East End, Green Acres, Riverheights, Waverley, Westview and Brookwood pop into my head).  
 
So, educate me and others why it''s so important to have a thirty to fifty million bridge (or a ten million walking bridge) to connect a stagnant community to a dead or dying city core?  
 
I''m not trying to be a jerk. All I want is the convincing justification for the potential cost and effort that would effect the rest to the city.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.  
 
Edited by snowman5, 2018-08-15 13:27:54

But, why should the north end even get a pedestrian bridge? Look at Winnipeg bridges crossing the Assiniboine River. There is the one at the perimeter, one at Moray, one at Kenaston, and more down town, plus the walking bridge at the Assiniboine Park. Just taking the first three into account, that is 3 bridges in almost 3 miles, and they are heavily used. Even the walking bridge gets lots of use. A bridge at 8th street will only get a small fraction of the foot or vehicle traffic, which is totally unreasonable for the cost. The $10 million or more can be spent a lot better in many other places.  
 
As snowman5 said, please educate us as to your reasoning.

"to connect a stagnant community to a dead or dying city core?"  
--  
 
So, we should let those two communities die completely and let the next generation of Brandonites deal with the ghettos that result from neglect? How much will it cost to deal with that? We need at least to be a little proactive to prevent the core of our city from becoming that ghetto.  
 
I do agree, although I was slow to get on board, that a bridge for traffic is more than we need to link the north end to downtown. A pedestrian bridge though is a reasonable way to interlink those two communities. It also helps to link up walking and bike paths so that our whole city has access to a healthy alternative to driving everywhere.  
 
Your words would suggest that you spend little or no time downtown. Downtown Brandon is so much more than bars, vendors, banks and doctors. In itself, it is a busy, industrious area with a bad reputation. You maybe should take some time and look around Brandon''s downtown, you might be surprised at everything you can find there. One of Brandon''s best kept secrets.  
 
Edited by fargobob, 2018-08-15 15:04:39

_water_ said "What makes you think there lucky to have at least have pedestrian bridge? Folks Have to drive from as far as 5th street north to get to 18th, just to turn back around and head back east on the other side of the trackst. I realize it’s a small portion of the city in the grand scheme of things. However, these people driving an extra 20 blocks a day for no reason seems like a waste of gas, time and money. Same goes for walking. A walking bridge would be fantastic for the people that have to walk this far just to get into downtown! However, why not make it a vehicle bridge at the same time. Just because you don’t live in the area and deal with the issue everyday does not make it an issue this city has. "

IT caters to only a small population vs the rest of the city. The money can be spent on other things this city needs and roads that need repairing.  
 
IF there was a vote regarding this bridge to the population of Brandon. IT will be rejected!!

fargobob said ""to connect a stagnant community to a dead or dying city core?"   --     So, we should let those two communities die completely and let the next generation of Brandonites deal with the ghettos that result from neglect? How much will it cost to deal with that? We need at least to be a little proactive to prevent the core of our city from becoming that ghetto.     I do agree, although I was slow to get on board, that a bridge for traffic is more than we need to link the north end to downtown. A pedestrian bridge though is a reasonable way to interlink those two communities. It also helps to link up walking and bike paths so that our whole city has access to a healthy alternative to driving everywhere.     Your words would suggest that you spend little or no time downtown. Downtown Brandon is so much more than bars, vendors, banks and doctors. In itself, it is a busy, industrious area with a bad reputation. You maybe should take some time and look around Brandon''s downtown, you might be surprised at everything you can find there. One of Brandon''s best kept secrets.     Edited by fargobob, 2018-08-15 15:04:39"

The short answer is Yes, let them die if they must. The only way any community or business can grow or survive is to adapt and help themselves. Sorry, the wants of a certain few can't be forced on the backs of the rest. I know people who lived, work, own property and have businesses down town. And I too, once worked there, now own property and always supported local business. But the fact remains... IT'S TOO MUCH MONEY FOR WHAT IT WILL DO. You want to connect the town? ...Start by putting in an underpass of the CN tracks on First street. One third of the town may run a risk of having to sit in an ambulance waiting for a train on the way to the hospital (that would be South of the tracks). That's resolving a safety issue. Want to resolve the traffic problems in the Flats? Start with extending Hilton Ave. westward to 26th. Want them to still have a pedestrian bridge? How about one over the river to Dinsdale Park? Souris built a custom cable bridge just short of four million dollars, five years ago. I would feel proud to have something like that for everyone to use/visit and have as an attraction for our town. The 8th street bridge served it's purpose and ran it's life, but things have changed now. It's original purpose back in the 20's and 30's are gone. The construction in the 18th street bridge in the 60's and the rebuilt of the First street bridge in the 70's rendered it obsolete for everyone but the few locals. It only gained popularity as a shortcut for those trying to get to the Corral easier. But now with the First street bridge rebuilt once again (and that one didn't even last fifty years), the short cut isn't required anymore. And after we hold our @$$es a little longer with the rebuild of the 18th street bridges, the demand needing to cross the tracks there will fall even more. Five years from now, almost everyone will think of the 8th street debate as silly and wasteful. Give it time. Things will work out.  
 
I support the down town and admire the uniqueness of the community of the flats. But I feel that some of the people & property owners are acting like spoiled children. The downtown property owners apply/get property tax reductions and "improvement grants" from all sorts of all levels of government while the rest of the city gets nothing. ...All because of their address. So we shouldn't feel bad for them/me. And I think being cut off from the core could/should be beneficial by removing some of the migrating rift-raft and isolating itself to become more of a bedroom community. No more outside traffic zooming through trying to get to Walmart. No heavy trucks & vehicle volume to bugger up the streets. And remember it's not an island, it's more of a peninsula. The only justification for vehicle access is for an extreme need to vacate the area under an emergency. Again, I think it would be cheaper and better to go over the river to Dinsdale (First street) then squeezing over the tracks and somehow incorporating onto Pacific Ave. (especially now that Pacific isn't linked to First anymore). ...But I still think it's too much money to benefit too few.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

_water_ said "What makes you think there lucky to have at least have pedestrian bridge? Folks Have to drive from as far as 5th street north to get to 18th, just to turn back around and head back east on the other side of the trackst. I realize it’s a small portion of the city in the grand scheme of things. However, these people driving an extra 20 blocks a day for no reason seems like a waste of gas, time and money. Same goes for walking. A walking bridge would be fantastic for the people that have to walk this far just to get into downtown! However, why not make it a vehicle bridge at the same time. Just because you don’t live in the area and deal with the issue everyday does not make it an issue this city has. "

What does that say for the boatload of people living north of the river that only have 2 bridges to get to the south? There is no bridge in the middle. There are way more population of people. Why don't they get a bridge? There are way more people on the west end of the city. Why don't they get a bridge to Grand Valley?

Kellye said "    redwine1966 said "Just an example of the need for an 8th St. traffic bridge. Not sure what Council is thinking. Just suck it up and do it!!   Just wait until construction starts on the 18th Street bridge. Going to be an even bigger mess to try to get north/south.   Honestly, I don’t get it. " The vehicular bridge isssue decision for the 8th Street Bridge is done and will not be replaced as a traffic bridge. Although many people with a vested interest or living in the area would have liked to see one, it was going to come at a cost to taxpayers of approximately 30-35 million plus.     The City of Brandon gave many people opportunities to voice their concerns and interests over many public discussion venues, plus anybody can contact their area councillor with concerns. There were also invites to the public to view the conceptual images of proposed options. We elect our City Council to make these decisions and they invited public input.     In theory, a vehicular bridge replacement would have been great, but not fiscally responsible.     Back to the topic, the 18th Street construction is just something that the citizens of Brandon will get through, just like any other major construction project. "

True. Even though per person using it a vehicle bridge was found to be expensive but certainly more cost effective. 3500 vehicles a day that i:ncluded transit and maybe 2 or 3 people per that would be aprox 8000. The 3500 count is from the city. A third route for first responders would have been nice. Now it will be 4 5 or 6 million for A couple hundred pedestrians?. No matter now they need to get a go ahead on the walking bridge. The vehicle bridge would not have been a waste. The walking will be. In a few short years CP may close the yards anyways. Take out two tracks and a level walking crossing would be cheap.A level crossing is possible with three tracks I think. Anyways the city did rush the notification but the shop owners and now any others will know to keep a eye on the city site. We should all try to support them now if we can. Every little bit helps.

myhandleistrain said "Very sad to hear the majority of the posts don't favour a pedestrian access from downtown to the North End. My parents and grandparents raised families in this area. It was a bastion for working class people (mostly Ukranians and other Eastern European immigrants) that helped build our railways and our city. It is still a vibrant part of our city, maybe not as neat and urban as newer developements, but still a big part of our history. Just my .02 worth... "

Why not the locals in that area start fundraising such as a gofundme for a bridge. Yes there is heritage in the area but for such a small population why would one spend many millions?

I'm surprised no one mentioned that one. Does anyone know how much that cost? and who uses it? It's closed most of the time because of flood waters.  
Snowman5... I agree with everything you said. I like the idea of a bedroom community and less traffic in the area. And I also agree with Fishing Guy who mentioned about the rest of Brandon who also only have 2 bridges to get to the other side of the river.

If anyone is interested in the history of the City of Brandon''s 8th Street Bridge, here are some links to interesting facts and articles from this long time bridge:  
 
From the Manitoba Historical Society:  
 
http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/sites/eighthstreetbridge.shtml  
 
From Mr. Christian''s website (He has been a regular and reliable historical source on ebrandon over the years):  
 
http://westenddumplings.blogspot.com/2017/03/brandons-8th-street-bridge-to-be.html  
 
City of Brandon:  
http://brandon.ca/what-is-happening-in-your-neighbourhood/active-projects/1263-bridge  
 
I just thought I would post this if anyone would like to read up on the bridge.  
 
Edited by michelle, 2018-08-15 18:17:10

I'm pretty sure that the last time I detoured today, that that detour had a detour of it's own …  
 
Infrastructure in Brandon certainly needs serious upgrade but closing off major routes for weeks at a time is doing it the cheep way. Bite the bullet, put the money in and get it done pronto. Add some manpower and equipment! More could then be done in a season, and local inconvenience would be minimised. But I presume that there aren't the funds to do more and so we do it on the cheep. Contractors as a whole can only collect XXXXXX dollars a season, being the modest infrastructure budget (provincial, federal and municipal). So they then compensate with inadequate staffing, inadequate equipment and unrealistic schedules, eventually taking half a summer to complete a project that in many other jurisdictions would take two weeks. We can do better.  
 
And I looked at Mb Road Conditions website this AM I couldn't find any reference to detours and traffic delays on HWY 10 through Brandon... somebody must be on holidays. We can do better.  
 
Rant over

"The short answer is Yes, let them die if they must."  
----------  
You call that a short answer, I call it short sighted. Your answer doesn't address the end result of a dead part of a city. The city as a whole then has to deal with the increased costs of doing something about a decaying, crime ridden section that no one wants to be a part of. Property values as well as tax revenues fall. Cities all over North America have seen this happen. The better managed cities try and get out in front of this and don't just leave neighborhoods to die.

Sure, it would be nice to have a vehicle pedestrian bridge to replace the old one now that it's gone, but it would be nice to have a lot of other things we can't afford. The relatively low population of the North End doesn't justify the cost, in my opinion. If you want a new vehicle/pedestrian bridge at 8th Street, then increase the population of the North End. Build some high density housing down there, maybe a few apartment buildings to rival Scotia Towers or Princess Towers in size. I know it won't happen, but until then, the cost of a $40 million bridge just isn't justified. One more thing, just think of the security concerns for pedestrians using the bridge at night.

snowman5 said "Please explain of what exactly are you getting from down town? This is the part I would like to understand. Is it the bars and vendors? Two are now gone from fire down there, but you people still have the Forty to walk to. Most public services can be achieved on-line. Banking is the same. Food and Pharmacy can be delivered and surely you don''t need to see the doctor every day? There hasn''t been a grocery store there in a generation and whatever grocery selection there would probably match to that of the Husky and the Co-op. So what is it? ...What are we missing that requires the city of Brandon to provide any sort of bridge that the payments will probably outlast the lifetime before the next re-fit/overhaul? This neighbourhood hasn''t seen any significant growth with development or numbers when compared to other sections of town, so another question would be... Will any bridge change the economic/civic development of the "Flats" or improve the existing safety and the quality of life for THE MAJORITY OF THE COMMUNITY.     ...And please don''t use the ambulance excuse. There are plenty of other neighbourhoods that both have just as long or longer wait for emergency arrival to the scene and destination to the hospital (North Hill, Hamilton Heights, Highland Park, Kirkcaldy Heights, Far East End, Green Acres, Riverheights, Waverley, Westview and Brookwood pop into my head).     So, educate me and others why it''s so important to have a thirty to fifty million bridge (or a ten million walking bridge) to connect a stagnant community to a dead or dying city core?     I''m not trying to be a jerk. All I want is the convincing justification for the potential cost and effort that would effect the rest to the city.     Just my opinion, I could be wrong.     Edited by snowman5, 2018-08-15 13:27:54"

"Most public services can be achieved on-line. Banking is the same. Food and Pharmacy can be delivered" Sorry, snowman5, but EVERYBODY does not share the luxury of internet access or the use of smart phones and apps. My parents are in their 80's and have never used the internet, nor used a smart phone. Because of limited pensions, I'm sure many seniors share the same situation.

You just proved a point. The bridge is a luxury to that area, not a necessity.