Discussions

Regarding the temperature difference between Manitoba and Oslo it is a lot colder in winter here than in Oslo.  
http://www.dauphin.climatemps.com/vs/oslo.php  
Has anyone a figure for the cost of recharging an EV, I appreciate there will be a difference for fast as against slow recharge.  
I imagine that the companies putting in the charging places will have to purchase land and build considerable infrastructure for travellers and will no doubt make the cost comparable to Gas/Diesel, they are not charitable institutions. Especially as they will be losing revenue from the current situation.  
As a further thought will the present auto mechanics have to be retrained as electricians?

Charging the Bolt or any other EV with a 60-64 kWh battery at home should cost around $10 or less. Using with the following numbers: 383km range (Bolt), 17.6 kWh/100km usage, $0.08527/kWh charged by MB Hydro. Formula: 383km/100km=:3.83 x 17.6=:67.408 x $0.08527=:$5.75 to fill up the battery pack from a theoretical 0% to 100%. Somebody let me know, if my calculation is off, please. Charging time on an 110V household plug might be a bit long (my guess 15 or more hours) but a 220V plug (similar to the dryer plug in your house) will charge the car easily overnight. There are chargers out there that can be installed in your garage and will do the job in a few hours (cost about $300-$500).  
Superchargers on the road or along the highway will charge you more $ but charge your EV faster as well (150kWh or more are possible). Just as you assumed, there is an extra cost involved for those providers that shows in the price for plugging in. The speed of charge depends on the EV and the charging station. There are different types of standards like CSS and CHADEMO, which are the most common. Some EVs can handle high Amps and high Voltage, some don’t. The higher the Voltage of the battery packs the faster charge is possible. Different suppliers will charge by different schemes, i.e. by time or kilo Watt hour or charge an extra fee once the car is still plugged in but already fully charged. Some cut of the charge at about 80% automatically. There is a specific reason for that I can’t elaborate on because length of my reply.  
Look up some YouTube vids from EV drivers in Norway or California. Both are heavily supporting EVs and you will see that charging an EV is still phenomenal cheaper than using gas or diesel. They already have well established charging stations strategically placed close to restaurants, regular 24hr gas stations with convenience stores and shopping centers which partially support the cost of the stations placed close by. That is how the cost of charging can be kept low and competitive.  
 
Edited by DadOf2, 2019-04-05 19:32:57

 
 
Edited by rum, 2019-04-05 21:10:12

tesla model 3 with V3 superchargers has the fastest charging speeds. Full charge can be accomplished in under 30 min. Most users should be able to do it in about 15 minutes due to not waiting till its drained and only charging to 80% for best practice.  
 
 
 
youtube video "Supercharging V3 and why Model S and X aren't eligible yet"  
 
Edited by rum, 2019-04-05 21:13:30

First, 8 years - 160000kms (not 100000 kms). So your arguement is that once the warranty is over, the batteries MUST be replaced. Please provide your evidence for that statement. You then say your truck has over 300000kms on it. Is it still under warranty? Did you replace the engine once the warranty ran out? Twice?  
 
Second. LOTS of people spend $40+ grand on an ICE car. I'll bet your truck cost pretty close to the same when new, so that arguements out.  
 
Third, no oil changes, no new exhaust, brake pads lasting the life of the vehicle...shocks....that's all that's left...and ball joints, tie rod end, drive shaft universal joints....just like a regular car.  
 
Four. Charging. Tech is improving, more stations are being added (shell or Petro announced that they would be adding charging to ALL stations on the TCH) and for everyday use, your charge when your asleep. How hard is that?  
 
You can make your arguements...times are a changing. My next car will be electric. And at $1.269 for fuel, I'll laugh while driving by the gas station.  
 
Marpet

I guess time will tell what the results will be. The more I have been reading on EV batteries the more complicated it becomes. Reading a Tesla write up it all depends on charge rates, cycles, etc. The faster you charge the less battery life you get. The more you deplete the battery between charges the less battery life you get. Sorry Marpet I didn't change the miles to km. Either way they said don't expect 300 thousand on a set of batteries. Chances are these EV buyers will hit the 8 years first before the milage. Sure you can laugh while I am paying at the pump. I would like to know how I am to pull my boat or camper or haul garbage to the dump with an EV. Or go out ice fishing, hell even the way cars get stuck around Brandon I will put it in 4x4 and maybe tow you out lol.  
Don't get me wrong I am all for EV vehicles but at 50 grand that is something I cannot swallow for only being able to use as a passenger vehicle. Yes my truck cost the same but I can do much more with it. Will be interesting as I am also to hunt to provide food to try and reduce beef intake as they are a huge gas producer. Try putting a deer or a couple limits of geese in the back of your EV.  
 
To me this is just another fad. Growing up in school all I heard was Acid Rain. All of a sudden couple years after learning it, it disappeared. Geothermal. We hear for a year or so and gone. Solar power, heard about it, rebates gone, where is the buzz now?

....literally stopped because government mandated change.  
 
Tesla's are available in all wheel drive.  
 
GeoThermal, alive and well. Expensive but so is paying your heating bill.  
 
Solar incentives are still available through Manitiba hydro. People just need to think differently.  
 
Tesla (and others) have plans for a truck capable of towing.  
 
Many people spend $50 grand on a passenger vehicle.  
 
Finally. Battery life is tied to charging and discharge rates. True. So is the life if an ICE engine. Keep your foot to the floor whenever you drive - damage your engine. Don't do regular oil changes and maintenance - damage your engine.  
Follow all required maintenance and you'd still be lucky to see 300000 kms, and it wont be cheap on maintenance getting there.  
 
Gord

of the EV 'revolution', so do not expect to have every type of vehicle in every price class available to consumer. It started from niche vehicles or very expensive, low quantity sports cars a few years ago, providing little range (under 100 km), long charge times (less than 50 kWh) and little comfort (batteries taking up cargo or passenger space), including taking large price tags or lease only (still very expenses due to small production numbers - compliance cars). A few years later (the present) we already have longer range, better battery technology, faster charging due to a better BMS and fast charger tech (water cooled cables on 350kW chargers!), same space available than an ICE car or more (Frunk), but we are still at the high price. EVs are just not made in the same numbers as regular cars. Time will come and we will be at parity or even cheaper (electric cars have fewer parts than ICE cars) and we will have more types of vehicles, including trucks. Next year we will see Rivian, maybe even a Tesla truck and Atlis is planning to bring a truck to the market as well. It won't take long and all the major American auto makers have to follow suit. Ford seems to be working on an F-150 electric already.  
Also, you can get a Tesla Model X with dual motors, providing all wheel drive and towing capacity. Looks like the Model Y (coming out late 2020 I believe) will provide the same comfort for less $$. The technology is already here, EVs are just not produced as much as a VW Golf or F-150.  
In my opinion, this is not a 'fab' or fashion or phase, this is the unavoidable future and the Big 3 start to feel the the pressure.  
Going back to the main discussion theme, the carbon tax is also a sign of things to come. Look across the big pond at gas prices in Europe and GB, look at China's limiting support for any kind of EV (now only supporting long range, because they make more sense), look at recent news of an Island in the Pacific that disappeared under water after a storm and did not 'come back'. It stayed under water for good due to a rising water level ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2018/10/23/a-hawaiian-island-is-now-completely-underwater-after-taking-a-hit-from-a-category-5-hurricane/#6bcebd1c2a11 ). Look at some video footage of drives through European countries. It is jaw dropping how many wind and solar generation facilities have been put up in a few years. North America is just 'limping' behind that development, building small solar farms here and there, planting a wind turbine or two in some places and having no nationwide charging infrastructure for EVs (except Tesla in the US) . Both Governments support dirty and expensive fossil fuels (for various reasons - I guess everyone working in the Oil industry will add me to their black list now ;) ) which are not endless and should be phased out gradually. The Sun is free energy for us and will shine 'forever' (I know the Sun has a live span too, but 5 billion years is basically infinity to us).  
This Carbon Tax might be a start, creating incentives flowing in the right direction. That is how it worked in some European countries.

realise that crude oil is not the only source of power. We have been using solar, wind and water power for thousands of years. Oil company's and their lobbies have created have created such a resistance and fear of anything seen as an alternative to fossil fuels. While we may not eliminate the need for crude oil, we can definitely reduce our reliance on it.

Couldn't agree more.  
I guess I did help highjack this thread a bit.  
People keep saying the Carbon tax is a tax grab and I'm surprised that they're surprised.  
The Carbon tax IS a tax grab. That's the point! To make people think about their fossil fuel use. Now, when the fearmongering of sky rocketing food prices starts I just ignore. Will prices rise? Yes. I'm also old enough to remember that bananas couldn't be bought in Canada in January. Maybe our convenience should come with a price tag.  
As far as BC emissions increasing after the carbon tax, down 2.2% from 2007 to 2016 (while the population increased 4.4% from 2011 to 2016). To imply that is due to the carbon tax would be a stretch, too many factors to consider but economists and business see the carbon tax for what it is. A revenue stream.  
It up to us to not spend our money on it.  
 
Marpet