Discussions

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/manitoba-s-150th-a-good-time-to-redesign-un-manitoban-provincial-flag-high-schooler-says/ar-BBZz7c6?ocid=hplocalnews  
 
I have attached a link to an article about changing the flag. It's an interesting notion. With 150 approaching is it a good time to discuss the notion?  
 
I am uncertain how I feel about it. One part of me thinks, " It's been the flag for 150 years. For good or ill. Leave it as it is."  
 
Another part thinks " I have always thought it was an ugly flag. It looks like it was thrown together is a slapdash manner with no thought. "  
 
Perhaps with 150 years of history behind us we could design a flag that means more to all Manitobans. A flag more reflective of our culture and history.  
 
Hmmmmm.

Is just fine the way it is. Embodies everything that is Manitoba and it’s history. It should be left alone. Besides if it’s changed I’ll have to buy a new one which will give me wallet cramps.

Unlike many American states I feel that Canadians have a more National Pride over Provincial Pride. (Don’t get me wrong, American’s LOVE the fact they are Americans , just say Texans, for example, it can be easily seen that their love of Texas comes first.) When many Canadians hang flags on their property they will only have the Canadian flag. Scarcely do I ever see the provincial flag as well. (I am excluding Quebec where I really only ever see provincial flags.)  
 
What I am saying is that whilst I am a Manitoban, born & raised, I see myself more a Canadian first & foremost. As a result I had to click on the link just to remember what the Manitoba flag looked like.  
 
When you take into account the untold millions of dollars and hours of political debate ...is it really something that is important?  
Will it do anything to improve Manitoba or help Manitobans?  
Will it cure diseases?  
Will it feed the hungry?  
Will it rescue the abused?  
Shall we drape a flag over the homeless for warmth in the winter?  
Will it provide jobs?  
Will it improve infrastructure?  
Will it ______________? (fill in the blank)  
 
I am sure there will be a the short period of national press coverage during the... shall we already call it a debacle(?)...it is the Government we are talking about here. This could be positive or could even be detrimental to Manitoba’s national image if it is a messy screwup. There will ALWAYS be people that will not like anything that is decided on. Haters gotta hate. So there is already negative press built right into the debate.  
 
I think the whole thing should be moot. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.  
Let’s fix what’s already broken before we start breaking things just to fix them.  
 
 
**HATERS** -to the haters that will comment that they ARE proud Manitobans - just don’t.  
I am a proud Manitoban, through & through, right to the bone. I lived in Ontario for nearly 20 years , almost half my life, but ALWAYS considered myself a Manitoban. However, I am a Canadian in my Soul.  
 
Edited by OutinBrandon, 2020-02-02 10:01:43

Our flag isn’t great. It “breaks” many design rules of a good flag. I recommend this ted talk on flags, it’s really interesting.  
 
Plus, it’s so close to Ontario’s design...  
 

What actual positives will come from changing our Provincial flag?  
 
Will those that have felt, or have seen to be excluded by others, now feel less excluded? Will their lives become better?  
 
Will a new flag be more highly regarded by the masses 50 or 100 years from now? Does our flag need to be in the top 10 of a popularity contest to represent us properly?  
 
Is a new Provincial flag just change for the sake of change?  
 
Will it be tax money well spent? If you had to fund the change with your own resources would you like the idea any less?  
 
In case it isn't clear already, I don't think Manitoba needs a new flag. Our Government has more important things to deal with and better places to spend their time and our money. Maybe it's just me but I see nothing wrong with what we have now.

Given that the current flag has only been around for 54-55 years, changing it is not a significant detriment to history, in my opinion. However, I am not really a fan of change. Changing flags, anthems etc for the sake of appeasing some while pissing off others just doesn't sit right with me whether recent history or ancient history. Again, just my take.

I am also not a fan of change for change's sake. But if there are legitimate reasons for change then I will support it.  
 
You make a good point that the flag is relatively young and as such could be changed without significant harm to history. So perhaps this IS the time to discuss it.

The problem is that even the legitimacy of the reason change is (or isn't) warranted is not clear. It has been said that the bison reflects First Nation and Metis people. Who can say whether this is true or not? It is certainly plausible that the bison could, at least partially, be so reflective.

No, just no, that is all.

Why waste tax dollars on this.  
 
Leave it be

Why did they remove the Union Jack from the flag design? Its very important to leave it in.

It needs to be redesigned because it does not in any way represent the history of this province.  
 
If you want to respect heritage, tradition, and history, then you should see the need for it to be updated.

....some of the suggested designs linked up stream. I think a redesign would be great!  
 
I think civic pride and identity are important so if there are those who feel the flag does not reflect the role of their ancestry in the development of Manitoba I think it fair and prudent to support their efforts for change should they push for it.  
 
There is no question that the Metis people featured prominently in the history of our province. It would be nice to reflect that in our flag.

I am not trying to start an argument but it has been suggested that the Bison MAY be seen as representative to both the First Nations and the Metis people. The Bison also predates both people.  
 
The Union Jack also acknowledges that we are, like it or not, part of the Monarchy. And, like it or not, there would be zero Metis people if not for European settlement.  
 
These are facts and not opinions. How, again, are the Bison and the Union Jack not part of our history?

You're correct, but in regards to the Bison, that was a plains animal common to the grasslands that spanned the entire centre of our country.It would be a common thing to the history of all three Prairie Provinces. While a big part of our history, certainly not unique.  
 
The same could be said of the Union Jack, that it is not unique to Manitoba.  
 
As for European settlement being necessary to the existence of the Metis I think there is room for conversation there but mostly on a semantic level.  
 
Personally I would like to see our ties to The Commonwealth reflected in the flag whether it be the U J or something else but I would not be so sad to see the Bison go in favour of something more specific to our history.  
 
If there is ever an official decision to change it I would hope that the public would be allowed to offer influence in its design. It would be interesting to see the suggestions and the reasons behind them.

The red ensign with the Royal Union Flag (Union Jack) was flown by merchants’ ships since 1707. Within colonial Canada the ensign was a sign of Royal authority and were flown from the forts and canoes of the Hudson’s Bay Company. The provincial seal was designed upon the red cross of St. George, the traditional flag of England. The bison on a green shield represents a beast that provided food and clothing to indigenous groups and early settlers and gave a strong export product.  
 
I think it represents our history enough. One has to remember when they designed these flags they didn't have fancy computers and photoshop to create all sorts of fancy designs and patterns. They had to make these flags too. I couldn't imagine trying to create some elaborate design. I question the article that is stating we have a bad flag design. A good flag design is something like Amsterdam? 3 strips and 3 x marks? That is a good design?

The Crocus is a nice idea but the purple/yellow colours are too gawdy. Other ideas might i:nclude a gopher? a mosquito? a combine? I see Amsterdam has three x's, we could have three O's or three check marks.  
 
Edited by bigmoe, 2020-02-03 16:27:06

While I tend to agree that the Manitoba flag is poorly designed, I don't see the point in changing it.  
 
Our national flag is designed well, and most of us care more about our national identity than individual provincial identities. Even then, in the case where someone identifies with their provincial identity, the last thing one would even think of is the flag.  
 
Deciding to change it is simply stirring the pot and making an issue out of a non-issue.

5centsworth you just nailed it , good job .  
Also i never heard of any speaking to are seniors about this at all an get there thoughts on the flag .

there is so many so many other important items to spend on that spending millions of dollars on changing a flag design is not where it should go.  
 
many don't realize that the change of the flag doesn't mean just changing the flag it means changing all provincial correspondence; paperwork; websites; etc; etc; etc;  
 
It is a snowball of wasted money.  
 
a flag is a flag leave it as it is.  
 
just like all the wasted money renaming roads after so called famous people. I don't know about you but many of these people I don't even know and I am sure the majority don't know who they are either.  
 
Things like Veterans road and things like that are different and the meaning is clear.  
 
I also hate all the changes to coins as a waste of money. But that's a different story. As there is so many ways that money is wasted.

I think if they are going to change it, they should get a design created from the Indigenous People. Something simple but packed full of meaning and from a culture and people who were on this land long before us. Imo that is giving honor to where honor is due.

As the designer of said flags, I was happy to see them in this thread. I also have another set of flags that make the Bison more prominent because people really like the bison.  
 
https://imgur.com/a/qsnc76S  
 
Below is my favourite of that set.  
 
As for those that say the flag doesn't need replacing... sorry, I disagree. It is horrible flag design, it isn't "part of our history" only being official since 1965 as a protest against the Maple Leaf Flag, looks almost exactly like Ontario's, and is very UK-centric in a multicultural province that also has a rich French and Metis history. For frig sakes, it has St. Georges Cross on it twice!  
To those that say it would cost too much. We change logos, etc all the time. Do a 5-year phase in period where both the old and new fags are recognized and it can cost us close to $0 to change.  
 
Our current flag sucks.

Not my design, but Heather Jones won a design competition in the Winnipeg Free Press in 2001 with this design. I've always liked it, although perhaps the Bison should face the flag pole.