Discussions

Daphne said "    Sorbet said "    MBGal said "   Hope it works! " of all I wouldn't put a lot of stock into what a six-figure, career unionist has to say. I am a former teacher and I had grow to have no use for the self-serving Manitoba Teachers' Society.     There are many excellent teachers out there. There are also many duds. the excellent teachers get the same amount as the duds. That is unfair.     Many current teachers are working on obtaining their masters degrees, and the school divisions, not only i Brandon, but throughout MB are encouraging teachers to get their masters. This will result in an $8 to $9 thousand dollar increase per teacher per year. Multiply this by the number of teachers enrolling in the masters program and you will see a major increase in salaries over the next 5 years. Now what kind of evidence will parents have that these masters degrees are improving education?     Math and English continue to be a problem. This is due to the provincial government. Math standards are considerably lower than they were 30 years ago. In 1980 multiplying and dividing fractions were done in Grade 6. Now they are done in Grade 8. This is one of many examples of a dumbed down curriculum.     Take a look at what a few professors at our local university have to say about the students they are teaching at university.     http://www.thequill.ca/2014/01/09/canadian-students-suffering-in-math/     And to the person here talking about learning styles. Have a look at this.     http://www.wired.com/2015/01/need-know-learning-styles-myth-two-minutes/     It's good to see people talking about public education. But if we take the words of a teacher union president at face value, then we have larger problems. " I would believe the article. We would be incredibly naive if we don't believe that there are other things outside the education system that influence a student's ability to learn. You are quick to try to brush off all of the article's facts. I'm sure he didn't make the numbers up. Our BSD had similar findings last year and if I remember correctly you discounted those findings also. So who does one believe? "

the provincial NDP government have any responsibility with the numbers Mr. Gould cites? I ask this because the hyper-partisan Manitoba Teachers' Society is a STRONG supporter of the provincial NDP party.  
 
The MTS wants the best of everything while accepting responsibility for nothing, while making excuses ad nauseum.

Their findings were similar.

Mr Gould presents a case for increased education of Manitoba Teachers in Math. I cannot help but believe that the 10,000 kids in care with the 33% High School graduation rate can skew the Provinces results to the extent he infers. He also infers but presents no data that Manitoba has a higher proportion of ESL than other regions.  
 
There are two areas of concern in this issue. One: are we achieving appropriate educational outcomes. Answer no we are not and we should be looking for solutions and not excuses.  
 
Two: are Manitoba Teachers too highly paid. I would suggest that is an issue requiring greater investigation than lauding the outcome of collective bargaining and citing (without reference) the current versus 1983 purchasing power.

Sorry but your facts are incorrect. Obtaining a masters degree bumps you from a class 5 to a class 6 salary schedule - see page 8:  
 
https://www.bsd.ca/Division/Careers/Documents/BTA10.pdf  
 
So not $8-9K, but $3-4K.  
 
And I don't have the time now but I disagree with most all of what you said in your rebuttal.

You could try the Life of Fred series. It is easy to understand and fun to boot.  
 
LOF focuses on Mastery. The main character on which the series is based is confronted with life problems and then has to solve them using math. There is a purpose to the math (not just an empty formula with no life application). It teaches kids to be bold and confident when approaching a problem and teaches them that they can find an answer on their own.  
 
I can tell you that my daughter who is currently using it had no interest in math (even though she understood it and did a good job when confronted with math problems). She now has great motivation and loves math. She is has a high level understanding of math thanks to these books.  
 
I have heard and read nothing but good about the series online and elsewhere.  
 
A bonus is that it can be done by the child without anyone hovering over them (they want to do it) and the hardcover books are inexpensive...WAY less than a tutor. The highest level books will cover the equivalent of university level math including Trig, Calculus and more.  
 
We also used the downloadable student book ($5) from multiplication.com for her to learn the times tables when she was much younger. She knew them very well in less than a week. No "tables" pain.  
 
I know that they sound too good to be true, but we have seen them work in our own family and like to tell others. There is no need to settle for mediocrity in math no matter what the cause/core issue is, and no need to spend an arm and a leg either. Try the online samples, and/or buy one book and see for yourself.  
 
I am not selling them by the way nor am I paid to endorse it. I am just a pleased and satisfied parent. If you want to know more, pm me.  
 
You can read more here: http://www.stanleyschmidt.com/FredGauss/index2.html

MBGal said "Sorry but your facts are incorrect. Obtaining a masters degree bumps you from a class 5 to a class 6 salary schedule - see page 8:     https://www.bsd.ca/Division/Careers/Documents/BTA10.pdf     So not $8-9K, but $3-4K.     And I don't have the time now but I disagree with most all of what you said in your rebuttal. "

but the class 4 teachers I talk to told me they will be class 6 after their masters. Maybe I misunderstood. Regardless, a $4500 raise multiplied by the # of teachers = a bigger budget for salaries. And what guarantee will we have that education for students will improve?  
 
Even BU professors are concerned. How about you?  
http://www.thequill.ca/2014/01/09/canadian-students-suffering-in-math/  

You have in the past made derogatory remarks regarding teachers pursuing their masters degree. When did it become a bad thing to want to continue your education? I for one applaud them! The extra knowledge they gain in their studies can only benefit their students.

Daphne said "You have in the past made derogatory remarks regarding teachers pursuing their masters degree. When did it become a bad thing to want to continue your education? I for one applaud them! The extra knowledge they gain in their studies can only benefit their students. "

the teachers I talk to frequently tell me they are doing it for the salary increase and pension increase. They cannot tell me how a masters will help their students.  
 
I also don't know how one can teach full time and complete a masters degree on the side during the school year. What comes first? Students or masters degree?  
 
My past remarks have asked questions.

What do people really want? The comments about the continuing education and masters' degrees are really surprising. Do you want the teachers to know more about the subjects they are teaching? Why don't you think that furthering their own education will improve instruction for their students?  
 
I doubt that any of the teachers taking a Master's degree are doing their coursework during the school day or so it is nobody's business if they decide to take on more work. Apparently teachers are free to do whatever we want after 3:30, as nothing requires them to spend additional unpaid hours grading papers, lesson planning, attending meetings, coaching or helping students with their extra curricular activities. If they choose to spend that time furthering their own education, why would you or anyone else have a problem with that?  
 
It isn't a plot to cost the school divisions more money. The thing about most educators is that they just love learning. They WANT to learn more. They may tell you in a conversation that they will make more money, maybe they don't think you'll understand why a person who spends most of their life in school already would want to keep going to school. Maybe they're just trying to explain it in terms they think others will understand, since most people do understand money.  
 
A good teacher isn't happy to keep doing the same thing in the same way, and will want to know more so he or she can do more, teach more, and share their love of learning with their students. If the end result of continuing education is that the teacher also makes more salary-wise, I would argue that they have worked to earn that higher salary - like they would in ANY OTHER occupation.  
 
I also know nurses who returned to university while working full-time to get another degree. I never considered asking them who comes first, the patients or the degree? I would just think they must be very dedicated to their career if they are willing to spend additional time working on courses and learning more about their profession. Never did cross my mind that they might be trying to cost the health region more money. Alert the taxpayers, close the loophole! We can't have people thinking that furthering their education should result in better pay.

Sorbet said "    MBGal said "Sorry but your facts are incorrect. Obtaining a masters degree bumps you from a class 5 to a class 6 salary schedule - see page 8:     https://www.bsd.ca/Division/Careers/Documents/BTA10.pdf     So not $8-9K, but $3-4K.     And I don't have the time now but I disagree with most all of what you said in your rebuttal. " but the class 4 teachers I talk to told me they will be class 6 after their masters. Maybe I misunderstood. Regardless, a $4500 raise multiplied by the # of teachers = a bigger budget for salaries. And what guarantee will we have that education for students will improve?     Even BU professors are concerned. How about you?   http://www.thequill.ca/2014/01/09/canadian-students-suffering-in-math/   "

This is an example of where in these kinds of debates, points are supported by more strength and likely to be taken more seriously when backed up with fact-based links rather than unverifiable second hand sources ("some teachers I talked to"). It's important for debate to have contribution from all perspectives and it's important to ask questions (even tough ones)..... but debates go off the rails in a hurry when the lines are blurred between fact and assumption.  
 
 
Edited by Adam, 2015-09-15 07:38:22

Adam said "    Sorbet said "    MBGal said "Sorry but your facts are incorrect. Obtaining a masters degree bumps you from a class 5 to a class 6 salary schedule - see page 8:     https://www.bsd.ca/Division/Careers/Documents/BTA10.pdf     So not $8-9K, but $3-4K.     And I don't have the time now but I disagree with most all of what you said in your rebuttal. " but the class 4 teachers I talk to told me they will be class 6 after their masters. Maybe I misunderstood. Regardless, a $4500 raise multiplied by the # of teachers = a bigger budget for salaries. And what guarantee will we have that education for students will improve?     Even BU professors are concerned. How about you?   http://www.thequill.ca/2014/01/09/canadian-students-suffering-in-math/   " This is an example of where in these kinds of debates, points are supported by more strength and likely to be taken more seriously when backed up with fact-based links rather than unverifiable second hand sources ("some teachers I talked to"). It's important for debate to have contribution from all perspectives and it's important to ask questions (even tough ones)..... but debates go off the rails in a hurry when the lines are blurred between fact and assumption.       Edited by Adam, 2015-09-15 07:38:22"

sorry Adam. Now, can you post a link that explains a class 4 teacher who completes a master's degree becomes a class 5 teacher and not a class 6 teacher?  
 

Starhc said "What do people really want? The comments about the continuing education and masters' degrees are really surprising. Do you want the teachers to know more about the subjects they are teaching? Why don't you think that furthering their own education will improve instruction for their students?     I doubt that any of the teachers taking a Master's degree are doing their coursework during the school day or so it is nobody's business if they decide to take on more work. Apparently teachers are free to do whatever we want after 3:30, as nothing requires them to spend additional unpaid hours grading papers, lesson planning, attending meetings, coaching or helping students with their extra curricular activities. If they choose to spend that time furthering their own education, why would you or anyone else have a problem with that?     It isn't a plot to cost the school divisions more money. The thing about most educators is that they just love learning. They WANT to learn more. They may tell you in a conversation that they will make more money, maybe they don't think you'll understand why a person who spends most of their life in school already would want to keep going to school. Maybe they're just trying to explain it in terms they think others will understand, since most people do understand money.     A good teacher isn't happy to keep doing the same thing in the same way, and will want to know more so he or she can do more, teach more, and share their love of learning with their students. If the end result of continuing education is that the teacher also makes more salary-wise, I would argue that they have worked to earn that higher salary - like they would in ANY OTHER occupation.     I also know nurses who returned to university while working full-time to get another degree. I never considered asking them who comes first, the patients or the degree? I would just think they must be very dedicated to their career if they are willing to spend additional time working on courses and learning more about their profession. Never did cross my mind that they might be trying to cost the health region more money. Alert the taxpayers, close the loophole! We can't have people thinking that furthering their education should result in better pay. "

I'll play. Let's discuss teachers who are working on their masters. Are they working on masters in Math, English, or science....you know, the most important subjects in schools? Or are they completing their masters on topics that have nothing to do with expanding content knowledge in subjects such as math and English? You know, the subjects that are extremely important for students.  
 
Now as a parent, would you expect to see better results fro a teacher with a master's degree? How will we measure, because after all, it's for the benefit of the students, is it not?  
 
 

My previous post in this thread was to give you (and others) another option. I guess that the quote did not get included.  
 
My apologies to all who are wondering why my post seems disconnected to the now branched off discussion.

In terms of salary classification here is a link  
 
http://www.edu.gov.mb.ca/k12/profcert/pdf_docs/handbkeng.pdf  
 
You cannot go from class four to class six without two masters degrees.  
 
You are right sorbet that teachers aren't taking a masters in math but that's because it doesn't exist for teachers to take. A masters of mathematics wouldn't fix things anyway. I do think teacher training has to change and there are new requirements that will hopefully help.  
 
People who are pursuing a masters are looking to become a resource teacher, guidance counsellor, curriculum consultant, or administrator. These courses are taken on their own time and paid for by themselves. These are very important positions in a school that I feel should have highly qualified people in them. I have also heard that getting an admin job in brandon and winnipeg without a masters is not very likely.  
 
Other professions can undergo further training that will increase their salary, it just seems teachers get a bad wrap which is very unfortunate because the majority do an excellent job at educating our youth.  
 
Also, I love how the Brandon sun publishes this information all the time for teachers, nurses, firefighters, police, city hall employees, etc. talk about putting the numbers out there with a biased view to readers.

I rarely comment on this website at all. As a teacher, I hardly ever open these types of threads (regarding the education system or schools, or teachers specifically) because instead of taking constructive criticism from it or bits of encouragement – I’m just left with a feeling of being unappreciated and misunderstood. It’s difficult to stand back and stay quiet with this one though.  
 
Sorbet, as a teacher myself, I am so disappointed by your comments. I have a lot I could comment and say, but I feel as if it would mostly be a moot point – but let me leave you with a few thoughts.  
 
I completed a Bachelor of Arts prior to obtaining my Bachelor of Education. Please know that I was required to take math and science courses during my BA. I feel that this was an adequate amount. I’m just wondering what more people want from teachers? My strengths lie in the humanities, so that is what I chose to study for my 3 years during my BA. I obviously have knowledge of math and science, as I studied them during K-12 and took some courses in university. This is NOT counting methods courses that I took in the Faculty of Education. What more would you like from teachers? Ideally, yes, teachers would be geniuses in ALL subject areas that they teach, but this is impossible to achieve. What do we do in university? We learn about topics and concepts in which we are unfamiliar of, learn more about them, and present our new-found knowledge. I’ll admit I have not been perfectly familiar with every single curriculum outcome I have been required to teach. However, I am confident that my education (more specifically my post-secondary education) has given me the ability to thoroughly learn a topic and concept, and be able to present my knowledge (or in my case, be able to teach it to my students).  
 
You suggested that teachers should take their masters in the “most important” domains in school (Math, Science, ELA), therefore implying that educating themselves in Guidance Counselling or Special Education is of lesser value. I couldn’t disagree with you more. As someone who holds a BA (with an English major), in a perfect world, I would absolutely LOVE to take my Masters in English. In fact, it would be my first choice. I would love to study literature more in-depth. But the reality is that in my profession, if I took my Masters in English, it would be far more beneficial for me than my students. My elementary-aged students would not benefit in the slightest if I furthered my education in English. So as much as I personally would enjoy it, I cannot justify it given my profession.  
 
Before you knock teachers educating themselves in counselling or Special Ed., please consider this - a student who is harming themselves or is suicidal is not going to benefit from going to a math class that is taught by a teacher who has a more comprehensive education in math. Take a child who has special needs and put them in a Science class taught by someone with a Masters in Science – I’m sure this will ensure they have an experience in school that will set them up for complete success all-around. I agree, in some cases, teachers continuing their education in their respective subject areas may be beneficial. Probably not in most cases.  
 
I am very interested in furthering my education – but in choosing what I will study – I will once again put my students needs before my wants. My students need someone who is able to effectively listen to them, and help solve and cope with problems they may be encountering. My students need someone who is able to plan units and lessons that accommodate ALL of their learning needs. My students do not need someone who has studied Chaucer, Shakespeare, and contemporary literature to no end (as much as I would enjoy that).  
 
I do not claim that I am a perfect teacher, or that all teachers are perfect. I just ask that you consider some of the people you generalize when you speak about us. I put in a great deal of effort to make sure my students get the very most from me. My workday, on paper, starts at 8:45 and ends at 3:30. My workday, in reality, starts at about 7 am, and there are days that I look at my classroom clock and see 11pm. I don’t complain, I rarely mention the extra hours to anyone but my family, who obviously notice my absence. I put in extra time because I know that is part of the job if I want to my job as WELL as I can, and I am happy to do it. I have 15 kiddos with growing minds coming into my classroom every day, and I feel deeply responsible for them. I’ll happily accommodate them in whatever ways I can. I’m happy to help my students learn, and get them excited about learning. I’m excited to spend my days with them and learn FROM them.  
 
I am very well aware that although I have my students for a very short period of their lives, I am helping them carve part of their path to their future. I, and the majority of the teachers I have had the privilege to study or work alongside, take this extremely seriously. We are aware that we may have doctors, scientists, journalists, mechanics, astronauts, etc., in our classrooms. We are aware that we could have a student who may hold the cure to cancer one day, who may be the next great world leader. We are aware that each and every day, parents trust us with their child’s education and also their well-being. We are aware that some of our students spend more time with us, and in our classrooms than they spend at home with their families. We have a genuine vested interest in our students’ lives. I admit I don’t do my job perfectly, but I hope that the effort I put in is in some way recognized, and the care that I have for each one of my students and their need is appreciated.  
 
 
 
 
Edited by SeptemberGirl, 2015-09-15 22:47:15

Thank you! Took the words right out of my mouth.

You are the one who is talking to all these teachers who are getting another degree just so they can be paid more, I guess you could just ask them what areas they are studying? Because I don`t know any teachers who are doing that, so I can't play.  
 
The teachers I know who have returned to school have taken courses to finish a 5th or 6th year, usually in a post-grad Education program ie/ Counseling, Administration, Special Education, etc. I know several who completed a 5th year in an teachable area so that they have more depth in a certain area, or so they can be more comfortable teaching a wider variety of subjects.  
 
If you know some who are returning to take Basket Weaving and Wine Appreciation and have confirmed that their post-graduate work will qualify them for reclassification, then I might understand your concern. but please keep in mind that the Education After-Degree program accepts someone with an existing degree - as long as it is in an approved subject area. They complete two additional years of education classes and then they will graduate with a B.Ed. They will then have TWO degrees and will be a certified teacher who already makes more on their first day of teaching than a teacher who just graduated with a B.Ed. I don't suppose we should avoid hiring all of the A.D.program teachers because they will cost the division more money right from the beginning.  
 
I do know plenty of teachers who continued taking courses towards a second degree or Master's degree and while I haven't examined their transcripts or checked the actual courses taken, they were programs for a Graduate degree or Master's Degree in Education, so I assume the coursework was quite relevant to the field of education.  
 
Honestly, I always thought that the additional courses had to be in a professional program or relevant to subject areas in order to qualify for reclassification. I don't think I know any teachers who took a bunch of non-ed courses, unless they were leaving the teaching profession. I know if I find time for additional courses, they will be in my current subject areas or methods courses for new subject areas.

Hopefully this is helpful:  
 
http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/regs/current/_pdf-regs.php?reg=115/2015  
 
The classification information is on page 30. As mentioned before, a 3 or 4 year degree prior to the B.Ed is what bumps a person up the scale from the beginning. A teacher who is already a Class 4 would have to get another degree to get a Class 6. A person who has a 3 or 4 year degree prior to entering the Ed. program will start teaching as a Class 5 or 6.  
 
I can see why a teacher who has been working for a decade or so may want to take some classes in order to move up to a Class 5 or 6 considering that is where all the new teachers are starting these days.

First off I have enjoyed many of the comments.  
 
We do have a problem when it comes to our education system and I think that has been proven where we compare our province to other provinces.  
I'm going to maybe stray a bit off topic to make a point but I hope it might make a point.  
On our farm we try to do pretty well all jobs that come up, that includes farming as well as building buildings, nearly all repair work, all electrical work, most of the vetrinary work, a bit of custom work, and even building of panels for corrals and snow fence. We try to do all these things to save or make money. There is one problem though that can happen by trying to do everything, the probl can be that you become less efficient at what your original job is.  
When a teacher takes courses to upgrade themselves they are rewarded financially, but if you have taken courses on counciling and apply that while in the classroom does it take away from teaching the curriculum, also wondering the same thing about special needs programs.

If a teacher returns to take a post-graduate program in Counseling, Special Education, etc. it is usually so that they can work in a different area of education. Most schools have a teacher or two who specialize in those areas and depending on the size of the school they may have several hours on their schedule where they work as a counselor or Special Ed. program, or they might work full-time in that area alone. Some counselors work with 3-4 different schools and travel between them all during a week.  
 
Those two areas specifically are a benefit for ANY teacher to have in their background as every teacher will have students in their class who have special needs or who may require extra guidance and counseling.  
 
I do think that we are often stretching teachers beyond their limits and areas of expertise - but I do not think that teachers acquiring additional education is any part of the problem, but rather a solution. If you are a teacher who ends up doing 25% counseling, then taking post-graduate courses in counseling is something you probably should do.  
 
Edited by Starhc, 2015-09-16 08:31:46

You bring up an excellent point with your example of farming - having grown up on a farm, I get exactly what you mean by the many jobs you have to take on and the multiple hats you have to wear to fit specific needs! The example works extremely well for teaching, although I'm not sure if it works in the way you intended it to.  
 
To secure a job in schools nowadays teachers are expected to put in time other than what is spent in the classroom. There are Professional Development days to attend which are excellent at giving teachers new ideas and knowledge about new techniques to work in the classroom. Most teachers need to help with extracurricular activities after school. Within the classroom and even sometimes outside of classroom time teachers are expected to counsel students, teach in a way that reaches all students (often a difficult task when you are teaching a large class), and even take on the administrative role at times because if every kid that misbehaves gets send to the office the teacher may be seen as inefficient and unable to control students.  
 
I see your point that in taking more specialized classes it could take away from teaching. However, the Masters of Education program is set up (at least in Brandon) so that teachers are only taking one course per semester. For someone like a teacher who is already proficient in multi-tasking, this should not take away from their class time. If it does, I'd guess that person might be one of those people who is choosing to upgrade their education for the financial factor, instead of for the good of their students.  
 
Ideally, those taking their Masters in the areas already discussed above would have a position in the school specifically for those areas. I realize that unfortunately this is not always feasible for rural schools.  
 
I will say that I appreciate your post because as someone who does not seem to be coming from an education background, you seem to want to come with an open mind and asking questions - that's great! I think that many teachers would even agree that there are things within the education system that need to be changed for the good of the students. Unfortunately, as has been stated earlier, a lot of it is not in the control of the teachers. It would be nice if the public and teachers could work together to resolve some of the issues instead of picking at one another and ignoring the big players in the game - school divisions and the Department of Education.

It isn't only teachers......today's paper. Almost a million dollar surplus and the school board trustees are wondering how to spend it. This is where it is stupid.....Union sees a million surplus....well that could be easily spent on educational wages. Taxpayers see it as a screw over on taxes saying they take too much. This is where a crooked system comes into play regarding funds. This still doesn't touch our poor teaching system.

crake88 said "You bring up an excellent point with your example of farming - having grown up on a farm, I get exactly what you mean by the many jobs you have to take on and the multiple hats you have to wear to fit specific needs! The example works extremely well for teaching, although I'm not sure if it works in the way you intended it to.     To secure a job in schools nowadays teachers are expected to put in time other than what is spent in the classroom. There are Professional Development days to attend which are excellent at giving teachers new ideas and knowledge about new techniques to work in the classroom. Most teachers need to help with extracurricular activities after school. Within the classroom and even sometimes outside of classroom time teachers are expected to counsel students, teach in a way that reaches all students (often a difficult task when you are teaching a large class), and even take on the administrative role at times because if every kid that misbehaves gets send to the office the teacher may be seen as inefficient and unable to control students.     I see your point that in taking more specialized classes it could take away from teaching. However, the Masters of Education program is set up (at least in Brandon) so that teachers are only taking one course per semester. For someone like a teacher who is already proficient in multi-tasking, this should not take away from their class time. If it does, I'd guess that person might be one of those people who is choosing to upgrade their education for the financial factor, instead of for the good of their students.     Ideally, those taking their Masters in the areas already discussed above would have a position in the school specifically for those areas. I realize that unfortunately this is not always feasible for rural schools.     I will say that I appreciate your post because as someone who does not seem to be coming from an education background, you seem to want to come with an open mind and asking questions - that's great! I think that many teachers would even agree that there are things within the education system that need to be changed for the good of the students. Unfortunately, as has been stated earlier, a lot of it is not in the control of the teachers. It would be nice if the public and teachers could work together to resolve some of the issues instead of picking at one another and ignoring the big players in the game - school divisions and the Department of Education. "

"There are Professional Development days to attend which are excellent at giving teachers new ideas and knowledge about new techniques to work in the classroom."  
 
It is true that SOME PD days are necessary and valuable. But having attended forced PDs for 30 years, I would say 80% of them are wasted days that would be better spent with kids in the classroom. PDs helping teachers learn new curricula are valuable. PDs where we have to listen to a guru sell the latest fad while getting paid over 10K to do so is usually useless. Having listening to the likes of Ken O'Connor or Alfie Kohn describe how homework, tests, and giving deadlines are damaging students was a waste of my time.  
 
The decline in standards in Manitoba is the fault of the provincial government, who are easily led astray by career consultants who have very little classroom experience. Lower standards = higher grad rates. The gov't always brags about our increasing grad rates. Well, that is easy to achieve when standards are low. Yes, the bar has been severely lowered.  
 
Now you speak as if you are teacher, and not an employee of BU. Do you have a spouse or a close relative who is a teacher?  
 
But anyway, here is an article that hits close to home. For me it is frightening.  
 
http://www.thequill.ca/2014/01/09/canadian-students-suffering-in-math/

Fishin Guy said "It isn't only teachers......today's paper. Almost a million dollar surplus and the school board trustees are wondering how to spend it. This is where it is stupid.....Union sees a million surplus....well that could be easily spent on educational wages. Taxpayers see it as a screw over on taxes saying they take too much. This is where a crooked system comes into play regarding funds. This still doesn't touch our poor teaching system. "

absolutely. Many years we were told in April and May that there is money in the budget that needs to be spent or we will lose it. So then money gets spent with very little thought. Multiply this by 37 divisions (?) in MB.

Fishin Guy said "It isn't only teachers......today's paper. Almost a million dollar surplus and the school board trustees are wondering how to spend it. This is where it is stupid.....Union sees a million surplus....well that could be easily spent on educational wages. Taxpayers see it as a screw over on taxes saying they take too much. This is where a crooked system comes into play regarding funds. This still doesn't touch our poor teaching system. "

The division cuts costs and saves a million dollars and your upset.  
 
Brandon is one of the lowest cost per student divisions and they are still cutting costs.  
 
Considering BSD is one of the best financially run divisions in Manitoba, Do you want to explain what part of cutting costs by a million dollars makes BSD crooked?  
 
PS - it appears you are implying it's going to the teachers and the union has its eyes on the money.... It's Kinda silly to suggest that considering the teachers have a 4 year wage agreement.  
 
I suggest we voted for these trustees and they seem to be doing a good job, maybe we should trust them to use the money where it's most needed.  
 

loeog said "    Fishin Guy said "It isn't only teachers......today's paper. Almost a million dollar surplus and the school board trustees are wondering how to spend it. This is where it is stupid.....Union sees a million surplus....well that could be easily spent on educational wages. Taxpayers see it as a screw over on taxes saying they take too much. This is where a crooked system comes into play regarding funds. This still doesn't touch our poor teaching system. " The division cuts costs and saves a million dollars and your upset.     Brandon is one of the lowest cost per student divisions and they are still cutting costs.     Considering BSD is one of the best financially run divisions in Manitoba, Do you want to explain what part of cutting costs by a million dollars makes BSD crooked?     PS - it appears you are implying it's going to the teachers and the union has its eyes on the money.... It's Kinda silly to suggest that considering the teachers have a 4 year wage agreement.     I suggest we voted for these trustees and they seem to be doing a good job, maybe we should trust them to use the money where it's most needed.     "

Actually I am not upset of saving money. I am upset they need to spend it or lose possible funding. It is like that phrase "burning a hole in your pocket". My problem is they will have to blow it to keep other funding, then next budget come to the table asking for an increase due to rising costs. Why can't it go back to the tax payers who could really need it? That is where it came from in the first place. Give me back an over payment cheque like MPI had to couple years back.

Simply start next years budget showing a million dollars already in the kitty. No need to spend it just for the sake of spending it, if indeed that is what is likely to happen now.

fargobob said "Simply start next years budget showing a million dollars already in the kitty. No need to spend it just for the sake of spending it, if indeed that is what is likely to happen now. "

Against the provincial law to carry money over, but there is no crime in using the money this year if it used to cover costs that are scheduled for next year.  
 
The trustees appear to be doing a good job, i think they deserve better then being called crooked.  
 
Edited by loeog, 2015-09-16 17:51:02

loeog said "    fargobob said "Simply start next years budget showing a million dollars already in the kitty. No need to spend it just for the sake of spending it, if indeed that is what is likely to happen now. " Against the provincial law to carry money over, but there is no crime in using the money this year if it used to cover costs that are scheduled for next year.     The trustees appear to be doing a good job, i think they deserve better then being called crooked.     Edited by loeog, 2015-09-16 17:51:02"

Hats off to those that have helped to operate with a surplus.  
 
That being said the real issue in my opinion is the division only being able to have less then 5% . 5% of a multimillion dollar budget is nothing.  
 
They should ask the province to be allowed an exemption to the rule as long as the surplus is deducted from next years budget. This would reduce the amount of that budget and also allow for items that may have been a timing issue that still need to be addressed.  
 
The sad thing is that they save money and the government slaps their hands. If they over spend or raise taxes to meet the budget then the government blames them for over spending. This from a group of politicians that are running a province that pays hundreds of thousands of tax payers dollar in interest every year.  
 

I have many teachers in my family, as well as most of my best friends who are teachers. I took a four year BA degree at BU and the two year after-degree in education. I then took my masters and specialized in special education. I am not looking to fight with you, and you make a lot of valid points that I agree with. There are definitely a lot of useless PDs. There was one a few years ago where attendees learned to make bread - a valuable skill for any classroom teacher (sarcasm). There are ones that are useful to teachers, though. This is why I prefer days like SAGE because the teachers can choose to go to sessions that will be beneficial for them. You've quoted The Quill's article many times. While I agree that major changes need to happen in this province in regards to Education, I would suggest to you to find a more valid article to show this. The Quil is basically a joke. It's written by students and is a paper that is completely biased without substance. Students even know that nothing in the paper is to be taken seriously. An academic article that is written by a fully educated member of society who actually has had a connection to the education system would be a better source. You, as someone who has been a teacher, is a more valuable resource than the Quil.