Discussions

Amaxinlin said "Lol, "why don't they just do it on spring/summer/winter break?" Teachers have families, kids and lives too. "

yes yet most jobs do not get as much time off as teachers...i wonder how they balance family time with only two weeks vacation in the year? lol

Cheezies- yes i suppose it would cost a bit more to have the teacher do it on alternative days, i was thinking they are paid pd days. one thing tho is other professions have to do continuing education yet they are ot paid to do them nor get funds to pay for the courses either  
 
ipov= its not the schools job to ready the kids for real life, it the parents so if anyone is failing think about where you look but also think about what you value, maybe values have changed with work life balance...tho they should find a suitable profession if they want lots of tine off...maybe teaching lol

If that is what your child's teacher communicated to your 16 year old child than go talk to the teacher. Go ask the teacher's side of the story and ask to speak to the administrator as well.  
 
Don't use this forum to tear down a profession because one person may have been "unprofessional" but do make an appointment to meet with the teacher and ask them to tell you their side.  
 
As a parent, get involved in your child's education and with the teacher BUT just do it as you would wish your child to be treated and respected.  
 

Everyone has families. Most people get 2-4 weeks holidays a year. Teachers are off a minimum of 11. By the sounds of it, I take it you may be one of the spoiled ones. You have yet to explain the hardships of being a teacher. I still look forward to you telling us why as you stated " we have no idea "

Amaxinlin said "Lol, "why don't they just do it on spring/summer/winter break?" Teachers have families, kids and lives too. "

So does literally everyone else.

As already stated, teachers do not receive 11 weeks holidays. They get the same holiday days that the children get during the school year and then they are on a unpaid summer break. They are not given two months holidays, they simply are off for the summer (which means all the time they put in during the summer getting their classrooms ready for the new school is all time they are volunteering for your children's sakes) unpaid during those months and either budget their money to make it work or take on summer employment. It's funny how many ignorant comments we read on here from people who've obviously spent little time learning any facts about the career.

I am an instructor, slightly different than a teacher but the same in many ways. I got to work at 7:30, took a 10 minute lunch and then got home shortly before 4:00. After the family went to bed, I spent from 10:00 PM until now (midnight) doing more work. I will repeat this process for 8 months. I am responsible each day for over 30 students separated into two different classes. I teach two completely different subjects at the same time and the material changes every single year so I spend time redeveloping the courses every single year.  
 
I worked in industry for over a decade and even though I get "my summers off" I put in more hours in 8 months than I did working 50 weeks a year.  
 
There are some good teachers who put in the effort required to provide an exceptional learning experience to those who depend on them. There are some lazy teachers who show up, open the books and call it a day. I can only control what I do so that is what I focus on. I have to live with it at the end of the day.  
 
We don't just teach the material. We have to learn how to teach. We assess the multiple learning styles in the classroom and modify our lessons to achieve the highest success rate between over 30 students we can. Half my PD time is spent learning material, the other half is learning how to become a better teacher, instructor, leader.  
 
I love what I do and will not complain about the extra hours. I do it because I love my job and role in the community. This exact position is available to everybody else who wants to work for it. Please share your opinions but if you are ignorant, then share your opinions somewhere else.  
 
My 10 hour day is almost done, getting up in 6 hours to do it again. Anybody care to join me?

Those that complain they don't get the holidays teachers do wahhhhh! Then become a teacher!!! We all make choices right? So do something about it . Walk a mile is all I have to say... Walk a mile instead of judging, complaining and blaming.

You make it sound tough try being a dairy farmer. I get up at 5 to milk and am responsible for the care of 45 milk cows and other farm animals. After milking till 7:30 i take 30 minutes for breakfast then back to work you say you take ten minutes for lunch i usually take none and eat lunch on the go in the field geuss what coffee breaks are usually taken on the go too. Now it is five in the afternoon back to the barn to milk again. After milking i do usually take a half off for supper but geuss what the sun is still up so back out to work until dark but wait the hay is still dry and the tractor has lights so i geuss my day isn't over yet, that darn wind picked up and kept hay dry till after midnight. Finally get to quit for the day take a shower and get to bed at 1 to do it all over again starting at 5 in the morning. That is my summer months winter is almost the same days are shorter but still up at five get to eat lunch in the house but then back out till milking time again and if I am lucky and had no trouble feeding and caring for all the animals that day my day will be over at 7:30. Did I mention that this is a 365 day a year job . If we are lucky enough to find a relief milker we might get a two week holiday sometime though out the year. I enjoy my life and wouldn't change anything about it I just get tired of hearing stories of how tough teachers have it. I truly appreciate and respect what all you teachers and EA's do and we need you there for our childern but if you love what you are doing then keep doing it and the ones who are saying how tough of a job or career it is either quit complaining or come try being a dairy farmer.

Good for you. I didn't see anyone complaining about being a teacher.

Nobody is complaining about how hard it is to teach, we are simply defending ourselves. I have never once seen a teacher start a thread on Ebrandon about how hard it is to teach. It is always someone else starting some kind of attack where we are forced to provide a defense.  
 
As a previous poster said, if you think it's so easy, become a teacher.  
 
More to the point of the post, specifically the posts saying we should be training in the summer. There are actually many PD seminars during the summer that a lot of teachers participate in. You can pretty much take away spring break as a holiday if you want to count the 2-3 weekends that teachers put in before every reporting period getting their report cards done. That adds up to about 12-18 extra days of work outside of school.

I too get sick of reading the teacher bashing threads. I also get sick of the martyr attitudes. Teachers are NOT unpaid over the summer break. They have the option of their salary being paid out over the school year or all year. I do think pd days should be just that, teachers should be in mandatory seminars etc for that day. Let our students national/provincial test scores speak for how well our teachers are doing.....

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain that again. You said yourself, they have the option of having their pay stretched out over 12 months, but they are not paid for the summer months. Their salary is for sept to June. So while they may choose to get their pay done for the 12 months it does not mean they are paid summer holidays.

two people here resorted to calling names and it wasn't the posters who are wanting to know why things are they way they are, interesting to say the least  
 
im not sure why teachers feel the need to be defensive, some simple questions were asked and i find it interesting that TEACHERS jump to a defensive stance instead of EDUCATING the public, that is maybe another issue in our school system  
 
it also seems that people assume posters dont know the ins and outs of teaching just because they have a different opinion  
 
NO job is perfect but even tho teachers dont get paid for all the summer or other days off teachers are not working them so why should they get paid, you choose a 3/4 time career you also have to choose the consequences which includes public scrutiny and the same kind of attitude could be used, if you dont like the conditions dont choose the career  
 
 

Someone mentioned lumping all pd days together for a 2 week long period. This is a good idea really if it is possible. Do all PD at the end of june and give the kids 2 weeks longer summer holidays, or do it right around christmas and have 2 weeks longer christmas holidays. Or do 1 week around christmas to give a longer break and 1 week at spring break to give kids 2 weeks spring break.  
 
I personally would love to have longer holiday time. It would give better opportunity to accomodate vacations, etc.  
I would also have less of an issue with all of the extra party or movie, etc. days if we had longer holidays. The way it sits now, the kids get enough down time with so many pd days, holidays, etc. spread out throughout the year, that I see no need for all of the extra activities at school. If the pd days were lumped together then yes, the kids would need a little break with a fun party day or something here and there to break up the school year.  

Jellybean said "Someone mentioned lumping all pd days together for a 2 week long period. This is a good idea really if it is possible. Do all PD at the end of june and give the kids 2 weeks longer summer holidays, or do it right around christmas and have 2 weeks longer christmas holidays. Or do 1 week around christmas to give a longer break and 1 week at spring break to give kids 2 weeks spring break.     I personally would love to have longer holiday time. It would give better opportunity to accomodate vacations, etc.   I would also have less of an issue with all of the extra party or movie, etc. days if we had longer holidays. The way it sits now, the kids get enough down time with so many pd days, holidays, etc. spread out throughout the year, that I see no need for all of the extra activities at school. If the pd days were lumped together then yes, the kids would need a little break with a fun party day or something here and there to break up the school year.   "

Agree with the kids having too many days off. One has to realize too when they come back from school I have had teachers tell me that the first 1-2 weeks is review of the previous year. When semesters change the week before is pretty much a bust as again teachers have told me there isn't much going on as marks are in and until the change over it isn't worth starting other stuff. What baffles me is the amount of extra time a teacher isn't in the classroom.  
These numbers are the average monthly sub bookings.  
 
-Average # bookings per month  
-Secretarial/EA-1242 (530 average same day call in)  
-Custodial-156 (69 average same day call in)  
-Teachers-1866 (702 average same day call in)  
 
I am assuming the 1164 bookings for teachers are due to already time booked for something. The 702 average same day call in I am taking as calling in sick or family emergency come up or something. That would make on average 35 teachers a day in our division calling in.  
 
Adding the numbers up for subs needed that is almost 3200 positions a month that are needed to be filled. So when people ask where is this money to come from to pay teachers to utilize the months of down time a year is there not opportunity to save on these extra subs needed to cover for call ins?

Fishin Guy said "    Jellybean said "Someone mentioned lumping all pd days together for a 2 week long period. This is a good idea really if it is possible. Do all PD at the end of june and give the kids 2 weeks longer summer holidays, or do it right around christmas and have 2 weeks longer christmas holidays. Or do 1 week around christmas to give a longer break and 1 week at spring break to give kids 2 weeks spring break.     I personally would love to have longer holiday time. It would give better opportunity to accomodate vacations, etc.   I would also have less of an issue with all of the extra party or movie, etc. days if we had longer holidays. The way it sits now, the kids get enough down time with so many pd days, holidays, etc. spread out throughout the year, that I see no need for all of the extra activities at school. If the pd days were lumped together then yes, the kids would need a little break with a fun party day or something here and there to break up the school year.   " Agree with the kids having too many days off. One has to realize too when they come back from school I have had teachers tell me that the first 1-2 weeks is review of the previous year. When semesters change the week before is pretty much a bust as again teachers have told me there isn't much going on as marks are in and until the change over it isn't worth starting other stuff. What baffles me is the amount of extra time a teacher isn't in the classroom.   These numbers are the average monthly sub bookings.     -Average # bookings per month   -Secretarial/EA-1242 (530 average same day call in)   -Custodial-156 (69 average same day call in)   -Teachers-1866 (702 average same day call in)     I am assuming the 1164 bookings for teachers are due to already time booked for something. The 702 average same day call in I am taking as calling in sick or family emergency come up or something. That would make on average 35 teachers a day in our division calling in.     Adding the numbers up for subs needed that is almost 3200 positions a month that are needed to be filled. So when people ask where is this money to come from to pay teachers to utilize the months of down time a year is there not opportunity to save on these extra subs needed to cover for call ins? "

So 35 call-ins per day. You realize that is barely 1.5 per school in the division right? Based on the number of staff in the division that hardly seems outrageous.

The reason that teachers don't use time off in the summer for Personal Development days is that: 1. It would likely be very difficult to coordinate everybody in the province to attend when they have all been used to booking vacations and time off during the summer. Chances are attendance at these PD days would be minimal.  
2. The teachers have a very strong union! It would never allow that to happen.

"So 35 call-ins per day. You realize that is barely 1.5 per school in the division right? Based on the number of staff in the division that hardly seems outrageous."  
 
That is just per same day call in of 35. Take all the subs needed over each month as I assume they are on courses or whatever. Maybe my math is wrong but that is around 35% of the staff missing a month. Numbers start getting larger now on replacement staff needed. Plus do you really think the subs are teaching 100% to what the teacher is to do? I have done the classroom stuff. How many also days before Christmas, exams, spring break, etc. have I heard teachers tell me they haven't started anything new as there is a holiday coming up. I have had teachers offer to give the course to my child to make up to pass for credits and be told here is the whole course, the total workload if done during a school day of hours could be done in two weeks. Provided that is one subject at 5-7 hours a day. I bet the average call in would go way down getting rid of this 1 sick day every 9 teaching days to a max of 20.

Teacherman if I factor in all the sub days it works out to 3 per school per day average. Does it seem like much? To me yes. I cannot remember the year I called in for work. Do you not think it is excessive of having 1157 staff and 1301 subs a month? There is what 10 months minus spring break, Christmas, Stat days we are looking at maybe 9 teaching months. Where am I wrong that there are on average 13,000 subs needed for 1157 staff for each school year. Is that not a lot of subs? How much did that cost the division?

V-BallRocks said "The reason that teachers don't use time off in the summer for Personal Development days is that: 1. It would likely be very difficult to coordinate everybody in the province to attend when they have all been used to booking vacations and time off during the summer. Chances are attendance at these PD days would be minimal.   2. The teachers have a very strong union! It would never allow that to happen. "

so basically teachers would find summer in services to inconvenient and just not show, why because they have been spoiled in this regard and their union of like minded people would stomp their feet to support them....that makes for a great reason for in services to be the way they are, like fishing guy noticed, doubling the amount of staff..guess the payment portion goes out the window since the subs dont work for free lol

Teacher's do not have to give up any of their summer holiday time, or their spring break or their christmas break. The school year could just simply end two weeks sooner for the children, so the staff could use the last two weeks for PD, instead of spreading out the PD days throughout the year. Or use the week before spring break for pd, so the kids get 2 weeks holidays, and the teachers still get their 1 week. And use the other week right before Christmas. The kids would get 3 weeks, but the teacher's would still get their 2.  
 
Makes much more sense, and their should be no scheduling conflicts or holiday time being used for the teachers, since it is already during the school year. I think parents would appreciate the PD days being lumped together as well, because it's easier to book childcare for 1 or 2 weeks in a row, than trying to find random days here and there throughout the year.  
 
I personally would love it if we had a whole extra week at Chrismtas for example. More time to plan travel, and family get togethers, etc. Same goes for spring break.  
 
 
Edited by Jellybean, 2015-10-08 14:12:11

And to the people commenting on the amount of subs used....I obviously do not have any specific numbers to go by, but just based on my kids classrooms each year, I see a lot of use of substitute teachers. My kids come home saying they had a sub quite often because their teacher was either in a meeting, or sick, or away, etc. We are barely 5 weeks in to the school year, and my kids have had at least 3-4 sub days already.

weatherman harry potter said "As already stated, teachers do not receive 11 weeks holidays. They get the same holiday days that the children get during the school year and then they are on a unpaid summer break. They are not given two months holidays, they simply are off for the summer (which means all the time they put in during the summer getting their classrooms ready for the new school is all time they are volunteering for your children's sakes) unpaid during those months and either budget their money to make it work or take on summer employment. It's funny how many ignorant comments we read on here from people who've obviously spent little time learning any facts about the career. "

Let's take this one step further. How about all hard drives, planners, etc all get tossed out/erased each year. I know teachers that just modify what they have from the year before where needed and take their prep time which varies from 30-60 min per teaching day as their own time.

Reminder that as per the original post, intent of the thread is to discuss the amount of days kids are off during the school year. Please ensure that posts are in line with that intent. Thank you

Jellybean said "Teacher's do not have to give up any of their summer holiday time, or their spring break or their christmas break. The school year could just simply end two weeks sooner for the children, so the staff could use the last two weeks for PD, instead of spreading out the PD days throughout the year. Or use the week before spring break for pd, so the kids get 2 weeks holidays, and the teachers still get their 1 week. And use the other week right before Christmas. The kids would get 3 weeks, but the teacher's would still get their 2.     Makes much more sense, and their should be no scheduling conflicts or holiday time being used for the teachers, since it is already during the school year. I think parents would appreciate the PD days being lumped together as well, because it's easier to book childcare for 1 or 2 weeks in a row, than trying to find random days here and there throughout the year.     I personally would love it if we had a whole extra week at Chrismtas for example. More time to plan travel, and family get togethers, etc. Same goes for spring break.       Edited by Jellybean, 2015-10-08 14:12:11"

thats a good point, i know SK has an extra week long winter break, not sure how they do their PD days tho but i know friends in SK get the extra holiday week

Saskatchewan starts before the September long weekend.

 
Sept. 7 Labour Day // are you serious, school hasn't started  
 
Sept. 25 K-12 Professional Development Day // day 1 in 4 months  
 
Oct. 12 Thanksgiving // are you serious, miss turkey day  
 
Oct. 23 Professional Development Day // day 2 in 4 months  
 
Nov. 6 K-8 Administration Day ?// not sure what this is  
 
Nov. 11 Remembrance Day // are you serious  
 
Nov. 20 K-12 Parent/Teacher Conferences // what good every comes from supporting your kids.

loeog said "   Sept. 7 Labour Day // are you serious, school hasn't started     Sept. 25 K-12 Professional Development Day // day 1 in 4 months     Oct. 12 Thanksgiving // are you serious, miss turkey day     Oct. 23 Professional Development Day // day 2 in 4 months     Nov. 6 K-8 Administration Day ?// not sure what this is     Nov. 11 Remembrance Day // are you serious     Nov. 20 K-12 Parent/Teacher Conferences // what good every comes from supporting your kids. "

I'm glad someone did this. That admin day is for report cards.

Teacherman said "    loeog said "   Sept. 7 Labour Day // are you serious, school hasn't started     Sept. 25 K-12 Professional Development Day // day 1 in 4 months     Oct. 12 Thanksgiving // are you serious, miss turkey day     Oct. 23 Professional Development Day // day 2 in 4 months     Nov. 6 K-8 Administration Day ?// not sure what this is     Nov. 11 Remembrance Day // are you serious     Nov. 20 K-12 Parent/Teacher Conferences // what good every comes from supporting your kids. " I'm glad someone did this. That admin day is for report cards. "

I am curious. Last year there were 467 workshops with 2498 registered for them. Now I cannot see them running 467 workshops on only PD days. I know some staff that during school days that have been to conferences and such. These workshops don't specify the length of each. I am curious as to how many teaching days were lost over the year to these.