Discussions

Fishin Guy said "    don brown said "Building ice on a river or lake is much simpler, easy access to water and a level surface make it much easier. Trevor sort of implied that they only had two people working on this and they were using a 2000 gallon tank truck and flooding with a hose, when your flooding ground it takes a lot of water. If the city is going to have a skating area then there should be some things that maybe they should look at if they are going to use the same site every year. I would think that a properly prepared site would last for years and Trevor mentioned that pumping wasn't practical. I would hope the city has pumps and hose that would work for such a job, I would find it sort of sad if they don't have some pumps and hose. Trevor also mentioned about laying the hose out being a big job, it likely is if only two people are involved, but dedicate some funds to preparing the site for long term, and put more than minimal resources and get the job done quickly. Not sure how many days they have to use the truck, and how many man hours are involved only using two people, but sometimes a bit of planning does get a job done with less cost.     I will admit that there would be problems arise by building manicured burms along walkways or the oval itself but usually it is able to find solutions that don't really increase the cost of the project. " I do agree except....The location used is prone to flooding isn't it? Maybe setting up around the discovery center could be a better option. I know potential for flooding is higher but where they have that large field north of the discovery center it may be easier to set up lights and skating in that area and maintain it over the summer. "

was at the Discovery Centre once, then it had to be moved. And now with the new retaining pond and the dike moved, there is no open field anymore. It was then moved to between the river and dike, in the flood zone. And now it's moved south of the dike in where the ball diamonds and the Parks Complex is, out of the flood zone.  
 
Where it is now has no source of water to pump from but is right next to the Parks Complex. They just full the water tanks there. Unless money is spend to put in hydrants. But once the ice is thick enough, they switch from a water truck to ice resurfacers. And those have water tanks that need to be constantly need to be refilled as well.  
 
But it all boils down to the fact that we've had a mild winter with above average temperatures which have delayed all outdoor rinks. Had we had a normal winter with normal temperatures we would not be having this discussion. And the oval would of been done long before the holidays.  
 

thecdnmole said "Sounds like Don and Fishin Guy have some good ideas for others to consider?     Wonder how many gallons of water does it take to make the oval? That would be many trips with a 2000 gallon tank. As Don says, the cost to setup a pump and run hose might be less and get the job done quicker? "

sure how much quicker it would be. And pump from where? The river is a fair distance away from the oval. Then you have a lot of hose to move, rollup, empty. While with the truck, you only have a short length of hose to worry about.  
 
At this point, the water truck is the quickest method.

Trevor B said "    thecdnmole said "Sounds like Don and Fishin Guy have some good ideas for others to consider?     Wonder how many gallons of water does it take to make the oval? That would be many trips with a 2000 gallon tank. As Don says, the cost to setup a pump and run hose might be less and get the job done quicker? " sure how much quicker it would be. And pump from where? The river is a fair distance away from the oval. Then you have a lot of hose to move, rollup, empty. While with the truck, you only have a short length of hose to worry about.     At this point, the water truck is the quickest method. "

and colder weather??  
 
Next time I'm in Brandon will have to go see what this oval looks like.

First off, thanks for your input, much appreciated. Just curious about the distance from the river, rough estimate and since I'm not familiar with the areas is there much difference between river level and level of skating area.  
 
I guess the reason I've taken an interest in this is I believe that the oval, if completed earlier in the year, regardless of year, is something that would be used more. The cost of things like this do have to be looked at carefully, but I look at things like spray parks and figure that they likely have a pretty hefty price, and likely appeal to a smaller group of people.

The City of Brandon's Community Services Department is pleased to announce that the public skating oval located immediately west of the Community Services Complex on McGregor Avenue is now officially open and available for public use. Following an unseasonably warm start to the winter season, In-City Maintenance staff have worked hard over the past few weeks to ensure a safe, skateable surface is available for people of all ages.  
 
The oval’s two warming shacks will be available for public use from 9 a.m. to 11 p.m. each day, while flood lighting and the Manitoba Hydro Power Smart Waterfall of Lights will remain lit from 5 p.m. to 11 p.m. nightly. A trio of fire pits are available for public use and portable washroom facilities are also available on-site.  
 
The public should note that while use of the skating oval is FREE, it is considered an unsupervised area, with NO sticks, pucks, or pets allowed on the ice surface. The public is encouraged to park in designated areas on McGregor Avenue or Hilton Avenue. NO public vehicles are allowed in the direct area of the Manitoba Hydro Power Smart Waterfall of Lights display or the skating oval.  
 
To satisfy the community’s many other outdoor winter enthusiasts, staff will soon begin packing cross-country ski trails, though their completion is highly dependant on future snowfall.  
 
More information about cross-country ski trails can be found here: http://www.brandon.ca/recreation-parks/ski-and-snowmobile-trails.  

All these people complaining about the oval not being finished, and or open, but when the announcement is made not one person says "yay" or "thanks"! Funny  

Dugr71 said "All these people complaining about the oval not being finished, and or open, but when the announcement is made not one person says "yay" or "thanks"! Funny   "

these people are out there skating already? lol!  
 
It's nice that the oval is finally ready and let's hope the weather co-operates by keeping the ice frozen.

and to all the members of the peanut gallery that are obviously expert ice makers, the last time I used the oval, it was a free service that our city has provided, which they technically don't have to do, and with all the advice about pumps or manpower during holidays and more trucks, if the city gave in to this pressure, we would probably end up with a $5 charge each time we skate! Have fun everyone, its open! And better get their quick before it is so crowded you can't fit! Sounds like 100's of people can't live without it!

they can't complain about it not being open?  
 
I agree that it sucks that it wasn't ready to go for the holidays. But when the weather makes it where making outdoor rinks not possible or hinders the progress, there's really not much you can do. This thread started on Dec. 13 and we just had our first real snowfall of the year. Up till that point it was very mild and very nice. But not nice for making ice outside. All outdoor rinks in the area were delayed due to the weather.  
 
The display lights were on in late Nov. and early Dec, did it mean that the oval was open then? Most people who were using it before it was open did not make any effort to check with the city. Yet afterwards, they came on here to ask why the the warming hut were locked?  
 
And even when the city said it was not open, people continued to ignore. On Monday night, I went past the oval and there were skaters on it. Even when the signs were clearly up saying it was closed. Some even parked right infront of the signs. There was one day, someone asked on here if it was open and was told no it's not. Then not even an hour later someone is asking who has the keys for the huts and questions if it was still closed!

from the oval to the river is 400' and the furthest part of the skating path is 800'. But in that 400', there's thick trees along the river, the dike, various elevation changes between the dike and the oval. So to layout hose and setup the pump every night would be nearly impossible.  
 
Trench in some water lines, maybe, but at what cost? Is the oval really that critical to do such. And would only be used for couple weeks a year.  
 
A second water truck might speed things up, but when the water takes most of the night to freeze, you could have 10 trucks and still take as long as one truck.

oval is also used by the Westman Speed Skating Club for Long Track Speed Skating  
 
https://www.facebook.com/westmanspeedskatingclub

Dugr71 said "All these people complaining about the oval not being finished, and or open, but when the announcement is made not one person says "yay" or "thanks"! Funny   "

It is because most of us have been using it for a week already. The novelty is wearing off...

Those distances were longer than I was thinking, so laying hose out for a few days would use up a fair amount of time, a buried pipe to a central location would be a good idea, but like you said cost would be a big factor in something like that.  
 
You mentioned about it only being used a few weeks a year, but for some of us that farm we usually figure freeze up happens around Nov. 11th. If it was built with a burm around the oval, and areas the would also be used, a large pump could likely flood the area pretty quickly, but that would involve the whole area to be flooded to be real close to level.  
The reason I mentioned November 11th was because since a flooded area would not have a great depth of ice on it and could be done earlier, and there are a fair number of nice days and evenings in November to skate. There are always people wondering what to do in Brandon, and I don't think that there is a shortage of things to do but many things come with a cost and at times that is what takes away activities for some people.  
 
We always have the federal government pushing physical activities, and although I don't always agree with what money gets spent on, it sometimes is a situation that communities can use federal funds for such projects.

don brown said "Those distances were longer than I was thinking, so laying hose out for a few days would use up a fair amount of time, a buried pipe to a central location would be a good idea, but like you said cost would be a big factor in something like that.     You mentioned about it only being used a few weeks a year, but for some of us that farm we usually figure freeze up happens around Nov. 11th. If it was built with a burm around the oval, and areas the would also be used, a large pump could likely flood the area pretty quickly, but that would involve the whole area to be flooded to be real close to level.   The reason I mentioned November 11th was because since a flooded area would not have a great depth of ice on it and could be done earlier, and there are a fair number of nice days and evenings in November to skate. There are always people wondering what to do in Brandon, and I don't think that there is a shortage of things to do but many things come with a cost and at times that is what takes away activities for some people.     We always have the federal government pushing physical activities, and although I don't always agree with what money gets spent on, it sometimes is a situation that communities can use federal funds for such projects. "

on Nov.11 would be great if the weather stayed cold enough for ice to freeze and stay frozen. We didn't exactly have many cold days in Nov. this year. And there are years where the ice is in mid way through Nov. Last year in Nov and Dec., it was really cold and have more snow.  
 
Making outside ice is really dependent on the weather. And I was referring to any underground water lines that would only be used for a few weeks to get the ice built up. Afterwards ice resurfacers maintain the ice.  
 
The Parks Complex is also 400' away, but is very accessible and a short drive between.  
 
Edited by Trevor B, 2016-01-06 22:23:58

I went to bed last night puzzled about one thing, that was why ice could have been so hard to make this year, like I said in one other story on this topic, we dug in some ties in early December and the ground had 8-10 inches of frost in it, and I knew that a slough that I drove by every day was completely froze over by the first of December, and the cattle jd been walking around on a dugout without breaking through, so why didn't things add up.  
 
Really a person shouldn't go to bed thinking about thing to seriously, because you usually wake up thinking about them, woke up once thinking about icicles, so I wrote that down, I know, sort of stupid but that's me. When I got up this morning I though I would check the mean temperatures for November and December and found out that freeze up started the 19th on November with the temperature not rising above freezing and by the 29th we had days where the mean temperature had been well into the double minus digits, so now I knew why things did freeze up. It doesn't really matter how temperatures feel or compare to other years, if the mean temperature is below freezing it frezes up and water turns to ice, like on the slough.  
 
I still couldn't figure what it was about the icicle though until I got looking at the temperatures in December, I know and saw there were temperatures above freezing, there were a couple of days that we had really warm days, but there was only one day that water actually showed up on the ice surface because of the warm temperatures, but why only one day. Icicles, the answer was icicles, some of those days that had plus mean temperatures in December were very windy. So what about the icicles? When do icicles form? They form on days where ther is thawing but are created when there is heat loss due to something like a wind, guess that's what we call windchill and it can take a plus temperature and turn it into a negative. Ice on a thawing day, who would of thought it.  
 
I guess the point of all this rambling is that, in my mind, ice was more than possible earlier in the season, not only was it possible but under natural conditions it did occur, and it occurred to a significant depth as well.  
 
If the city thinks the idea of a skating area is important, and wants it for an extended period, maybe the idea of how the ice is made needs to be rethought, although investment of site preparation as well as infractucture cost do need to be thought about.  
 
Oh well, time for something else,  
 
Edited by don brown, 2016-01-07 06:36:03

Sorry for all the spelling mistakes, but been busy watching the business channels and getting a chuckle out of the experts trying to explain what's happening.