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Brandon School Division Tax increase

Brandon School Division Tax increase

JacqPDJ
Joined: This month
Posts: 146

JacqPDJ
Joined: This month
Posts: 146

Brandon School Division Tax increase
2/17/2016 at 5:03 PM

I'm surprised folks haven't started a discussion on this. Proposed rate hike of 5.4% or on average $84.98 on a home assessed at $225,000. What's the mill rate? Without that valuable piece of info it doesn't sound too bad to most folks. It's quite a tax hike in a time where everyone is doing more with less. Why can 2-3.5% increase be sufficient? Did they really cut everywhere they could. I'm unable to post a link to the article outlining this information. Perhaps a trustee could post the minutes from the meeting or summarize what was approved? If folks don't complain it tells BSD that this is an acceptable increase. The city of Brandon didn't increase taxes that drastically this year how can they manage to do it? How do the citizens of Brandon feel about this increase?
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

I don't like it one bit!
2/17/2016 at 5:17 PM

But sometimes you think, why bother fighting? It seems like the school board doesn't give a hoot how much they raise their portion of our tax bill. All they say is "all for the good of the kids". And some people buy it!

Are the kids getting a good enough education? Are they getting our money's worth?

Maybe someone who has children in our school system can answer these questions.

At election time I don't cast a single vote for school trustees because they are all painted with the same brush. All want more money, end of!

At least our Mayor and city councillors listen to the people when we say "no more"!
taxed to death
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 237

taxed to death
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 237

BSD tax hike
2/17/2016 at 5:30 PM

I thought the Manitoba government gave the school division gave them a 5.3 percent increase in funding which out to 2.3 million o
ouworksout out
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

yes the province
2/17/2016 at 5:35 PM

did give more money but it seems to spur them on to spending more.
mackenzie5
Joined: This month
Posts: 420

mackenzie5
Joined: This month
Posts: 420

..
2/17/2016 at 5:48 PM

it would be nice if the schools graduates were able to read and write,fluent in one national language and could do simple mathematics. all of these enrichment programs do nothing to aid in the basics, just cost a lot of money.

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear

Joined: Mar 2010

Posts: 4183

yeah

2/17/2016 at 5:53 PM

mackenzie5 said "it would be nice if the schools graduates were able to read and write,fluent in one national language and could do simple mathematics. all of these enrichment programs do nothing to aid in the basics, just cost a lot of money. "

that's shameful

FarmerMike
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 405

FarmerMike
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 405

.
2/17/2016 at 6:09 PM

Don't forget that teachers, aids, staff etc need wage increases too. That adds up Im sure in a division as big as Brandon. Also, what about technology costs? As most people know, technology is only good for a couple years, so theres a big turn around too.

Haven't people seen that in todays day and age, nothing gets cheaper? Everything costs more money all the time, and its time we all get used to it
ece2
Joined: This month
Posts: 923

ece2
Joined: This month
Posts: 923

interested to know
2/17/2016 at 6:10 PM

Where the money does? It's harder and harder to get funding for children that need additional support in the class room and the division doesn't pay for outdoor equipment as the parent groups have to fundraiser for that which I'm bloody sick of doing. When teachers plan a field trip the school bus used is billed to that school so again paid for with money that the same group of parents fundraise for. I don't get it either.
JacqPDJ
Joined: This month
Posts: 146

JacqPDJ
Joined: This month
Posts: 146

agree with you...
2/17/2016 at 6:15 PM

I have the why bother attitude too and know that my little voice will bring minimal if any changes. If enough folks go to the meeting to express how they few maybe they will catch a clue that this is unrealistic. Universities only get 2-3% and certainly can't raise tuition up that much every year. Let's hold these people accountable with our money. Justify these needs are they wants or absolutely essential to the running of the schools on a day to day basis. Times are tough for a lot of people and I think it's sad for people just making it that have to give up things they work hard for to make the extra monthly contributions. Children may go without healthy diets or families cut corners in other areas to make it all work. I'm all for a realistic in line with inflation rate increase. I work for the government and do the work of 3 departments because there is no money for staff we are always doing more for less and still passions roommate about the services we provide. It's sickening when people don't the proper wage increases and BSD has the nerve to ask for 5.4% and justify it as a reasonable increase. I think school boards should be abolished the money we pay these individuals would be better spent on our kids. We're already paying for all these government employees and ministers they can take on these extra responsibilities and actually make decisions when necessary. I can't attend the meeting but I do hope I can email my comments to someone on the board who will read them at the very least!
Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

It
2/17/2016 at 7:35 PM

costs a lot to run an average education system.

I would like to know how many teachers in Brandon are classified as either Class 4, 5, or 6. I know there are many teachers, not just in Brandon, but throughout the province working on a Masters degree through BU. A masters degree leads to a salary increase of just under $5000/year.

Should we expect more from a class 6 teacher than a class 4 or 5 teacher? I dunno?

https://www.mbteach.org/collective-bargaining/pdfs/Brandon%2014-18.pdf
Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8881

Trevor B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8881

2/17/2016 at 7:39 PM

Really, only $5000/ year?
Blade
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538

Blade
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538

**
2/17/2016 at 8:27 PM

Well when you look at the makeup of the school board trustees and 75% or more of them are teachers or retired teachers it is not a surprise that they look after their friends still working. It would really be nice to see all of them given the boot. However year after year the same ones run and are acclaimed so it is no ones fault but our own.

It was nice to see them cut out their vacation/seminar on bullying trip to Dublin Ireland though. Really makes you wonder what they were thinking when they even had it on the table for consideration. However maybe that is an indication of just how far they think they can push the taxpayer and get away with it.

Edited by Reggie 2, 2016-02-17 20:28:37

Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

Sorbet

Joined: Aug 2009

Posts: 674

The

2/17/2016 at 9:05 PM

Reggie 2 said "Well when you look at the makeup of the school board trustees and 75% or more of them are teachers or retired teachers it is not a surprise that they look after their friends still working. It would really be nice to see all of them given the boot. However year after year the same ones run and are acclaimed so it is no ones fault but our own.

It was nice to see them cut out their vacation/seminar on bullying trip to Dublin Ireland though. Really makes you wonder what they were thinking when they even had it on the table for consideration. However maybe that is an indication of just how far they think they can push the taxpayer and get away with it.

Edited by Reggie 2, 2016-02-17 20:28:37"

Dublin trip was an example of the taxpayers actually paying attention and calling out the non sense. However, many trips abroad over the years have been paid for by the taxpayers.

Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

Yep.
2/17/2016 at 9:07 PM

Trevor B said "Really, only $5000/ year? "

That's all. Just a few pennies in the bucket. It can only benefit the kids, right?

loeog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 914

loeog

Joined: Mar 2009

Posts: 914

Your favourite rant

2/17/2016 at 10:02 PM

Sorbet said "costs a lot to run an average education system.

I would like to know how many teachers in Brandon are classified as either Class 4, 5, or 6. I know there are many teachers, not just in Brandon, but throughout the province working on a Masters degree through BU. A masters degree leads to a salary increase of just under $5000/year.

Should we expect more from a class 6 teacher than a class 4 or 5 teacher? I dunno?

https://www.mbteach.org/collective-bargaining/pdfs/Brandon%2014-18.pdf "

For several years now you have complained about the division hiring educated teachers.
Can you imagine, hiring educated teachers to teach!!! What a crazy thing to do.

Next thing you know, we will start hiring nurses to be nurses and doctors to be doctors.

Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

Sorbet

Joined: Aug 2009

Posts: 674

They

2/17/2016 at 10:22 PM

loeog said "

Sorbet said "costs a lot to run an average education system.

I would like to know how many teachers in Brandon are classified as either Class 4, 5, or 6. I know there are many teachers, not just in Brandon, but throughout the province working on a Masters degree through BU. A masters degree leads to a salary increase of just under $5000/year.

Should we expect more from a class 6 teacher than a class 4 or 5 teacher? I dunno?

https://www.mbteach.org/collective-bargaining/pdfs/Brandon%2014-18.pdf "

For several years now you have complained about the division hiring educated teachers.
Can you imagine, hiring educated teachers to teach!!! What a crazy thing to do.

Next thing you know, we will start hiring nurses to be nurses and doctors to be doctors.
"

are EDUCATED coming out of university. I'm not complaining. I just fail to see how a masters degree will improve education.

The students that I work with have teachers who are class 4. These teachers are doing a great job which proves to me that getting a masters is more about the increase in salary and pension. Taxpayers end up paying for both.

As you know many teachers are working on Masters. That's great. But I find it odd that they are working on it during the school year. How do they find the time? How do they find the time?

How will a number of teachers with masters improve students' education? That's a question very few have been able to answer.

Sorry for getting controversial, but what the ..........

PT1001
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 779

PT1001
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 779

2016-2017 Budget Sustainability Requests
2/17/2016 at 10:31 PM

Here is the latest from the BSD if anyone wants to read it.

https://www.bsd.ca/board/consultations/budget/Documents/2016-2017%20Budget%20Documents/2016-2017%20Budget%20and%20Sustainability%20Requests.pdf
Tango123
Joined: This month
Posts: 70

Tango123
Joined: This month
Posts: 70

BSD
2/17/2016 at 11:46 PM

I am sickened and discusted at this tax hike. We have had the displeasure of employing the graduates of this school system for 20 years. It is getting worse year by year. My son, who is 20 years old should still be in high school as far I'm concerned. He got from grade to grade without opening a book. He is one of the lucky ones who got a job that pays great due to knowing someone who knows someone. I am thankful that I only have one child. As for the amount it costs me? It bothers me tons because it every tax hike in the past has resulted in nothing as a business owner and parent.

Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

Sorbet

Joined: Aug 2009

Posts: 674

This

2/18/2016 at 6:08 AM

Tango123 said "I am sickened and discusted at this tax hike. We have had the displeasure of employing the graduates of this school system for 20 years. It is getting worse year by year. My son, who is 20 years old should still be in high school as far I'm concerned. He got from grade to grade without opening a book. He is one of the lucky ones who got a job that pays great due to knowing someone who knows someone. I am thankful that I only have one child. As for the amount it costs me? It bothers me tons because it every tax hike in the past has resulted in nothing as a business owner and parent. "

is exactly what I Have been saying for a long time, but every time public school apologists jumps down my throat.

I work with many kids and I am witnessing a steady erosion of academic skills. That's why I ask how all these Masters degrees teachers with pay increases will improve academics.

Anyone who pays close attention will realize there is much wrong. If you don't agree to the constant tax hike you are labelled as angry. If you question the quality of student produced these days you are labelled a teacher hater.

Everyone should be concerned. We are paying more and more for a system that is becoming inferior. I will say that this is not just a Brandon issue. Public education is suffering throughout MB, regardless of the enormous amount of money being thrown at the system.

The system is rotten folks. Being a fly on a wall in any school for an entire month would open many eyes.

Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

Sorbet
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 674

And
2/18/2016 at 6:14 AM

is full day kindergarten really worth it? Ontario has it. The public only hears one side. It costs a bundle, but in the LONG RUN....is it worth it?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/kindergarten/full-day-kindergarten-in-ontario-gets-failing-grade/article1379499/

http://www.macleans.ca/general/why-full-day-kindergarten-is-failing-our-children/

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lydia-lovric/full-day-kindergarten-benefits_b_3988019.html

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-munchkin-invasion/
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

the best eduation
2/18/2016 at 7:26 AM

starts at home when parents engage their children, get them interested in life! We never went to kindergarten, Mom used to say it was "just babysitting"
Blade
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538

Blade
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 538

Time to educate the Trustees
2/18/2016 at 8:29 AM

The problem with our school board trustees is they don’t appear to have a critical mind. Just accept whatever some study that is only 4 years old concludes and run with it.

A Research and Assessment person apparently comes up with the idea that full time kindergarten puts a student at grade 3 abilities when they enter grade 1. So does that mean we should start full time kindergarten at 4 years of age and they will be ready for grade 6? Heck we will soon have them ready for university when they are 12 years old at that rate. Unfortunately they will still be to young to get a job.

I have experienced 18 year olds working in stores also that cannot count change back. They either try and can’t or just give you a fistful of change so you can count it yourself.

Back in my school days kindergarten was pretty much unheard of yet all my school mates turned out pretty good. They learned a lot of life skills simply by having paper routes etc. We didn’t go on ski trips, we learned to ski on our own, same with swimming lessons. If teachers spent more time in school teaching rather than playing we might have better results. The school system from teachers on up to trustees is what needs a drastic overhaul.

Many workers are getting 2% raises and some get nothing it’s time the education system thought about this or else their right to tax should be taken away.
CatMan
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1144

CatMan
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1144

Needs vs. Wants
2/18/2016 at 9:33 AM

Don't think "teachers, aids, staff" NEED a 5.4% wage increase, they may want one, but who gets salary increases that size?
Unfortunately, elected officials seem to feel they are playing with the house money when it comes to budgets. I'm sure they don't run their own households the same. How about trying to hold the line or cut back? Now that would be a refreshing change.
0heelside00
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 24

0heelside00
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 24

It's important to know...
2/18/2016 at 9:57 AM

Not ALL trustees were for this hike. Majority rules. Take note of who is using their brains and who is not when it comes to the next election. We do have some good trustees, but unfortunately not enough.
I know it feels like we can't make a difference, but hopefully if enough of us try we can. Maybe wishful thinking....
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Budget
2/18/2016 at 10:36 AM

Trying my best to follow "seek first to understand, then be understood" on this one.

Does anyone have information that would speak to whether the 5.4% mentioned in the original post is a proposed 5.4% mill rate increase... or whether its 5.4% net increase in property tax collected? Being an assessment year the answer's important in understanding what's being proposed.

The City has done an extensive job of preparing a page at the link below that explains the relationship between assessment, mill rate, property tax, etc. Takes a little bit to wrap your head around initially but its important as a way to understand the whole process, of what one's paying and why. In one of the documents its noted that there's a 13.5% increase in taxable assessment in the city in 2016 on the residential side of the ledger, so any kind of mill rate increase at all would represent a meaningful increase in tax paid on the average property:
http://www.brandon.ca/taxes-assessments

Just a side note...
In all of this I would ask that folks please debate points, numbers, priorities, etc. There should be no need to get personal with members of the board.

Edited by Adam, 2016-02-18 10:47:18
Rowdy
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 57

Rowdy
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 57

when will it end
2/18/2016 at 10:52 AM

When you question the price of education you get the answer how do you put a price on your childs education That's a tough one to answer but it is getting to be so expensive so where will we draw the line. I personally think teachers are overpaid, do they have a tough job likely no harder than anyone elses. I personally think teachers should be evaluated by the students as teachers evaluate the students, I understand that there will be some that just don't like each other but if you get continual bad reports from the majority of students maybe its time to replace a teacher or two , they are very well paid for what they do lets get our monies worth. I would like to see every student tested in the basics every year not to be used as a grading mark but a way to evaluate how the teachers are doing, it would be a way to see how many kids are at there grade level for the basics if it shows a teacher is constantly not meeting education levels lets get rid of them, why pay for someone that isn't doing there job School taxes are high lets get our monies worth
JacqPDJ
Joined: This month
Posts: 146

JacqPDJ
Joined: This month
Posts: 146

All day Kindergarten
2/18/2016 at 11:09 AM

Agree Adam...With it being an assessment year will be know what the mill rate will be before the budget gets approved? I would certainly hope that we would be announced, or how do we know the full implications of this tax hike? It would seem very crooked and underhanded if we were not presented with such vital information. Adam can you reach out to BSD to see if you can get the mill rate? You have been very good in the past with regard to City taxes getting the information out for folks.

Also I Completely agree with the other posters on this. Kindergarten is not even mandatory why are they pouring all of this money into making it all day? It completely is a glorified babysitting service! Lots of folks never attended kindergarten, how have their results compared to the results of those all day students? It would be very telling to compare non Kindergarten students to all day Kindergarten students. That would be the real truth.

Going by a study doesn't necessarily reflect the outcome for each child. Not every child is ready for all day Kindergarten some can't handle going to school all day they become fatigued, act out, become uncooperative and this could contribute to their overall behavioral problems. More doesn't always meant better. Children can't be forced into learning each child learns differently and there is no one fits all formula. The best thing anyone can do for their child at school or home is to continue to read books to your child. Studies say that children who have been read to have higher comprehension and vocabulary levels and read at higher levels. What does all day kindergarten do? Make them tired and force them to learn when they may have had enough. I can't wait for those experts to release studies in the next 10-20 years that say all day kindergarten actually harms a child and causes burnout! A study doesn't look at a child as an individual it only lumps them in together with a majority outcome, but it won't reflect that way for every kid in the study.

The point of going to Kindergarten is to expose and get children used to the school system so they are ready for Grade 1. Why are we placing such high expectations on 5 year olds? And furthermore why do Kindergarten students not qualify for the bus if even though they live far enough away from school? It makes no sense to fund all day programming and then not bother to offer bussing for these kids.

People please keep asking questions voicing your opinions, attending meetings and letting these trustees know that we won't accept a 5.4% increase and they are going to have to go back to the drawing board and get more realistic.
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

As per CKLQ and Mr. Sefton
2/18/2016 at 11:18 AM

the 5.4% increase is not set in stone. Does this mean the number can climb higher? Certainly hope not! I would like clarification on this statement from Mr. Sefton or any member of the school board.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Budget
2/18/2016 at 11:39 AM

Think I've answered my own question and maybe some of the OP's too. It took some digging, but found this document that shares more info (see link below). It looks like the 5.4% must be the overall average increase in the school tax part of one's property tax bill as things stand right now. The mill rate itself would be dropped (see the 4th from last page). The City also is dropping the mill rate, though it would seem quite a bit more to accomplish a tax increase of 0.59% on the municipal side of the bill. Would recommend a read of this document to anyone interested in debate on this topic:
https://www.bsd.ca/board/consultations/budget/Documents/2016-2017%20Budget%20Documents/2016-2017%20Budget%20Consultation%20Presentation.pdf
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Mill rate
2/18/2016 at 2:21 PM

Have obtained and added a graphic that shows the proposed mill rate decrease of 5.63% and how the math works out on an average home that would've been assessed at $225,000 before the new 2016 assessment. Bottom line, overall school portion of the tax bill on that average property would go up 5.41% by the time mill rate and assessment changes are factored in.
Your results may vary depending on if your property was re-assessed by the province at an amount higher or lower than the average assessment increase.... keeping in mind that all of this is the school side of the tax bill and that the city side is looking like it would go up 0.59% on average. There is also still what one might call an imbalance between residential and commercial re-assessments that sees home owners end up paying a larger percentage of increases like this (municipal and school) than commercial/institutional property owners.
Edited by Adam, 2016-02-18 14:28:33