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Cee Jay 55 said "I did not answer any of your questions because obviously you have "educated" yourself on anti-vaccine garbage websites. Do you know that the initial studies linking vaccines to autism was all faked? The Dr was discredited and his research, though totally false, created a mass of people that falsely believe vaccines are "dangerous".     Do you smoke? "

exactly on what site did I educate myself on?  
That is an assumption. I'm not anti-vaccine, I'm pro-choice. So your excuse for not answering any question, is an accusation that is not true.  
I never brought up anything on autism either, so don't put words in my mouth.  
 
No, I do not smoke.

Enfyre said "What heavy metals are in children's vaccines? "

wasn't that one of my questions?  
I would Like That answer to that from someone who is Anti-choice.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

Enfyre said "What heavy metals are in children's vaccines? "

It's sad to see people so fixated on garbage pseudo science, when the evidence against is utterly overwhelming.  In relative terms the amount of "heavy metal" we are talking about in a vaccine is irrelevant, as mentioned, below trace amounts in our day to day environment.  To generalize "heavy metals" to any and all vaccines I don't believe is accurate anyways.  Thimerosal has been an additive as a stabilizer in certain vaccines, containing small amounts of mercury, and I believe that concentration has been reduced in the formulations it was in.   
 
At any rate, even the old levels were far below the average dose gotten from a can of tuna, or pen raised salmon (if you want something real and ongoing to worry about).  The willingly uninformed should also consider the heavy metal present in tap water, or the antimony leaching from plastic beverage bottles, far greater sources of contamination, arguably even of real concern. Don't ever touch vinyl blinds, or paint from before the 80's, both significant sources of lead. One touch of a window sill, or your blinds, (or dusting them) is a greater worry than a series of vaccinations.  
 
The bottom line with the purposely ignorant though, is that science doesn't matter, overwhelming facts don't matter, they are smarter by themselves with their half baked theories, picked and chosen at random. Apparently it makes them feel special.  
 
I notice that there are no answers to why newer parts of cemeteries aren't filled with the graves of children though.  
 
These people pose a real threat to society, they would wish us back to the days of scarlet fever, polio and whooping cough. Amazing how they've been glad to ride on the coat tails of the greatest breakthroughs if public health, but court miserable death for children.

I will never understand why people have fallen in to all of this talk that vaccines are now harmful, so they choose not to vaccinate their children.  
 
I can totally understand why people choose not to get the flu shot, or other "optional" vaccines. We don't get the flu shot in our family because I just believe it's extra crap that we are putting in to our bodies that is not totally necessary, and it may not work anyways, so I don't really see the point. We have healthy immune systems to fight of bugs, so we just go with that. If someday, we are at higher risk of complications from the flu, then I would consider the vaccine. I myself always react terribly to whatever ingredients are in vaccines, so if it is not on the list of vaccines that "should" be given, then I don't really feel like putting myself through feeling like crap. I always got sick as a child every time I had the routine vaccines, but those I view as more necessary, as it doesn't matter how good of an immune system you have if you were to contract something like polio.  
 
The one idea that really really irks me is the whole notion that vaccines cause autism. I wish people would just give this one up once and for all. It has been squashed already by research, and anyone with half a brain could do that math and see that autism is on the rise even more in the last 10 years than it ever has been before, and antivaxers have also been on the rise in that time too. Plus, how do you account for cases of autism before the vaccines that apparently are causing autism? It's just mind boggling how many people, especially ones that have kids with autism truly still believe this hogwash. We have a child with autism as well, and never once have I thought that the vaccines caused her autism. Maybe there are ingredients in vaccines that exacerbate symptoms of the autism, but they certainly do not cause it.  
 
Anyways, do what you want with your own health, not my choice, but at least try and be informed by a medical professional instead of google before you make your decision.  
 
 
 

The anti science, anti common sense community seems to want to claim that vaccines are dangerous, due to "dangerous" additives. Of course, that these "dangerous additives" have been through more rigorously objective testing and observations than virtually any other products found in our lives doesn't phase them as they are science illiterate.  
 
I do find it funny how these same people are perfectly fine with betting their lives, and those of others on the science and research that went into their vehicle tires, as they hurtle down the highways. Somehow there is integrity in that relatively slack branch of science, but extremely scrutinized, well proven, and rigorously monitored, miniscule dose vaccines aren't safe.  
 
A claim like that calls for real proof. I suggest looking at the case of Australia, where if you want to get your child tax benefit cheques, your kids must have up to date immunization.  
 
If there's any credibility to apparently ridiculous claims made in this discussion it should be obvious that health in Australia has decreased. Proof is essential, otherwise we can call such statements garbage.

rum said "    Enfyre said "What heavy metals are in children's vaccines? " wasn't that one of my questions?   I would Like That answer to that from someone who is Anti-choice. "

You obviously "know" the answers to your questions - or you at at least believe some of what you have read on unreliable anti-vax websites or heard from anti-vax acquaintances. Presenting the peer reviewed scientific truth will do no good, you will simply attempt to refute it with more inane questions or unfounded "facts" that appear on anti-vax websites.  
 
And "pro-choice" WTF is that? Just another way of saying anti-vax as you obviously are not pro-vax. I thought "pro-choice" was referring to a woman's ability to choose to abort a fetus??? Hmmm... I guess pro-choice in this case means exercising the right to allow your child(ren) to become infected with preventable diseases.  
 
I will not waste my time presenting scientific peer-reviewed data that all the anti-vax non-thinkers attempt to dispute without a shred of evidence to back up their "claims".  
 
You never answered any of my questions either... stating "Yes, I know what they are." is not an answer.  
 
And the reason I asked about smoking is because so many anti-vax dummies smoke cigarettes...... look up the chemicals in them compared to a vaccine, lol.  
 
SMH - no point in trying to set anti-vaxxers straight, they lack the education to utilize logic and understand actual science while refusing to learn why they are wrong.  
 
Here's a scenario for you - MPI requires me to wear a helmet when I am riding my motorcycle on the off chance that I get into an accident: the helmet is supposed to help prevent me from getting brain damage. Maybe they are "lying to me" about that. Maybe helmets cause brain damage in an accident. In fact, I am sure they do as I read that somewhere online and also someone told me that in person. So - now I will exercise my right to "pro-choice" and ride without wearing a helmet. That is MY choice and if I get into an accident and die from head injuries, my responsibility. However, if I tell a passenger not to wear one, then I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM, just as anti-vaxxers are responsible for their children.  
 
Do you know what the scientific method is?  
Do you know what empirical data is?  
Do you know what anecdotal data is?  
Do you understand cause and effect?  
 
 
 
 
Edited by Cee Jay 55, 2016-03-30 10:56:44

Science is overrated. I trust Donald Trump, he is rich and famous so he must know what he is talking about when he says that vaccines cause autism.

ultraguy said "Science is overrated. I trust Donald Trump, he is rich and famous so he must know what he is talking about when he says that vaccines cause autism. "

Troll!!!!

DID YOUR DOCTOR INFORM YOU OF THE RISK ASSOCIATED WITH ANY VACCINE YOU GIVE/HAVE GIVEN YOUR CHILDREN? Possibility of slight fever. There was no fever.  
DID THEY MOSTLY FOCUS ON THE PRO'S? I was talking to a Doctor not a sales person, there was no pressure.  
DID THEY INFORM YOU WHAT HEAVY METALS ARE IN THE VACCINE? No, and they didn't play a slideshow either..  
WHAT HEAVY METALS WERE IN THE VACCINE? Just a miniscule amount of aluminum.    
DID THEY INFORM YOU WHAT THE GUIDELINES ARE ON THOSE HEAVY METALS? The amounts are insignificant, about 1/32 of FDA annual limit (for babies).  
GUIDELINES?  I guess don't get 32 vaccines in one year.  
IN WHICH ORGANISMS WERE THOSE VIRUSES CULTIVATED?  Viruses grown in activated and continuous cell lines. Bacteria in Petri dishes.  
RATS? MICE? PIGS?  No live animals.  
ANY PART OF THOSE ANIMALS?  Rats&mice - No, unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary. Some vaccines contain porcine gelatin.  
WOULD YOU FORCE A JEWISH PERSON TO TAKE A VACCINE THAT WAS CULTURED IN ANY PART OF THOSE ORGANISMS?  Science has no sympathy for peoples fanatical beliefs, but yes, all vaccines are kosher.  
WERE YOU INFORMED OF ANY AND ALL THE THE INGREDIENTS?  No there was no seminar provided.  
WAS PEANUT OIL PART OF THE INGREDIENTS?  There is no peanut oil in modern vaccines.  
HAS PEANUT ALLERGIES BEEN TOTALLY RULED OUT AS A SUSPECT IN THOSE ALLERGIES? WHERE ARE THE STUDIES WHICH CONCLUDE THAT THE SCIENCE IS SOLID?  Peanut oil is non-allergenic, but since there is no peanut oil in vaccines no studies are required.  
ARE THERE OTHER METHODS OF VACCINATIONS FOR HUMANS THAT DON'T REQUIRE THOSE PRODUCTS BEING INJECTED DIRECTLY INTO THE BLOODSTREAM?  Child vaccines are delivered via intramuscular injection, not directly to the bloodstream.  
IS THERE A FORM I CAN ADD TO MY WATER AS THERE IS WITH SOME ANIMAL VACCINES?    
OR A FORM I COULD BREATHE IN?    
IS INJECTION THE ONLY METHOD?  Yes there are some drinkable and aerosol versions of some vaccines but not all, more are in development.  
IT IS WELL KNOWN FACT THAT DIET IS A MAJOR FACTOR IN THE IMMUNE SYSTEMS ABILITY TO FIGHT A VIRUS, WOULD YOU BE OK WITH A LAW THAT LIMITS YOUR FOOD CONSUMPTION TO WHOLE FOOD, FRUIT AND VEGETABLES?  
Yes.  
WOULD YOU BE OK WITH OUTLAWING PACKAGED JUNK FOOD, POP, BACON, AND OTHER UNHEALTHY PRODUCTS?  
Yes.  
WHERE WOULD YOU DRAW THE LINE?  At a certain nutritional threshold.  
I AM PRO-CHOICE, AND VALUE THE ABILITY TO MAKE AN CHOICE.    
DO YOU VALUE YOURS? I let the evidence decide for me.  
DID YOU REALLY MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION, OR DID YOU RELY ON SOMEONE ELSE TO BE INFORMED? I relied on the combined knowledge of thousands of scientists and millions of hours of study and development over many decades.  
 
Edited by Enfyre, 2016-03-30 12:35:37

Enfyre said "DID YOUR DOCTOR INFORM YOU OF THE RISK ASSOCIATED WITH ANY VACCINE YOU GIVE/HAVE GIVEN YOUR CHILDREN? Possibility of slight fever. There was no fever.   DID THEY MOSTLY FOCUS ON THE PRO'S? I was talking to a Doctor not a sales person, there was no pressure.   DID THEY INFORM YOU WHAT HEAVY METALS ARE IN THE VACCINE? No, and they didn't play a slideshow either..   WHAT HEAVY METALS WERE IN THE VACCINE? Just a miniscule amount of aluminum.     DID THEY INFORM YOU WHAT THE GUIDELINES ARE ON THOSE HEAVY METALS? The amounts are insignificant, about 1/32 of FDA annual limit (for babies).   GUIDELINES?  I guess don't get 32 vaccines in one year.   IN WHICH ORGANISMS WERE THOSE VIRUSES CULTIVATED?  Viruses grown in activated and continuous cell lines. Bacteria in Petri dishes.   RATS? MICE? PIGS?  No live animals.   ANY PART OF THOSE ANIMALS?  Rats&mice - No, unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary. Some vaccines contain porcine gelatin.   WOULD YOU FORCE A JEWISH PERSON TO TAKE A VACCINE THAT WAS CULTURED IN ANY PART OF THOSE ORGANISMS?  Science has no sympathy for peoples fanatical beliefs, but yes, all vaccines are kosher.   WERE YOU INFORMED OF ANY AND ALL THE THE INGREDIENTS?  No there was no seminar provided.   WAS PEANUT OIL PART OF THE INGREDIENTS?  There is no peanut oil in modern vaccines.   HAS PEANUT ALLERGIES BEEN TOTALLY RULED OUT AS A SUSPECT IN THOSE ALLERGIES? WHERE ARE THE STUDIES WHICH CONCLUDE THAT THE SCIENCE IS SOLID?  Peanut oil is non-allergenic, but since there is no peanut oil in vaccines no studies are required.   ARE THERE OTHER METHODS OF VACCINATIONS FOR HUMANS THAT DON'T REQUIRE THOSE PRODUCTS BEING INJECTED DIRECTLY INTO THE BLOODSTREAM?  Child vaccines are delivered via intramuscular injection, not directly to the bloodstream.   IS THERE A FORM I CAN ADD TO MY WATER AS THERE IS WITH SOME ANIMAL VACCINES?     OR A FORM I COULD BREATHE IN?     IS INJECTION THE ONLY METHOD?  Yes there are some drinkable and aerosol versions of some vaccines but not all, more are in development.   IT IS WELL KNOWN FACT THAT DIET IS A MAJOR FACTOR IN THE IMMUNE SYSTEMS ABILITY TO FIGHT A VIRUS, WOULD YOU BE OK WITH A LAW THAT LIMITS YOUR FOOD CONSUMPTION TO WHOLE FOOD, FRUIT AND VEGETABLES?   Yes.   WOULD YOU BE OK WITH OUTLAWING PACKAGED JUNK FOOD, POP, BACON, AND OTHER UNHEALTHY PRODUCTS?   Yes.   WHERE WOULD YOU DRAW THE LINE?  At a certain nutritional threshold.   I AM PRO-CHOICE, AND VALUE THE ABILITY TO MAKE AN CHOICE.     DO YOU VALUE YOURS? I let the evidence decide for me.   DID YOU REALLY MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION, OR DID YOU RELY ON SOMEONE ELSE TO BE INFORMED? I relied on the combined knowledge of thousands of scientists and millions of hours of study and development over many decades.     Edited by Enfyre, 2016-03-30 12:35:37"

Well done!!!

Cee Jay 55 said "    rum said "    Enfyre said "What heavy metals are in children's vaccines? " wasn't that one of my questions?   I would Like That answer to that from someone who is Anti-choice. " You obviously "know" the answers to your questions - or you at at least believe some of what you have read on unreliable anti-vax websites or heard from anti-vax acquaintances. Presenting the peer reviewed scientific truth will do no good, you will simply attempt to refute it with more inane questions or unfounded "facts" that appear on anti-vax websites.     And "pro-choice" WTF is that? Just another way of saying anti-vax as you obviously are not pro-vax. I thought "pro-choice" was referring to a woman's ability to choose to abort a fetus??? Hmmm... I guess pro-choice in this case means exercising the right to allow your child(ren) to become infected with preventable diseases.     I will not waste my time presenting scientific peer-reviewed data that all the anti-vax non-thinkers attempt to dispute without a shred of evidence to back up their "claims".     You never answered any of my questions either... stating "Yes, I know what they are." is not an answer.     And the reason I asked about smoking is because so many anti-vax dummies smoke cigarettes...... look up the chemicals in them compared to a vaccine, lol.     SMH - no point in trying to set anti-vaxxers straight, they lack the education to utilize logic and understand actual science while refusing to learn why they are wrong.     Here's a scenario for you - MPI requires me to wear a helmet when I am riding my motorcycle on the off chance that I get into an accident: the helmet is supposed to help prevent me from getting brain damage. Maybe they are "lying to me" about that. Maybe helmets cause brain damage in an accident. In fact, I am sure they do as I read that somewhere online and also someone told me that in person. So - now I will exercise my right to "pro-choice" and ride without wearing a helmet. That is MY choice and if I get into an accident and die from head injuries, my responsibility. However, if I tell a passenger not to wear one, then I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM, just as anti-vaxxers are responsible for their children.     Do you know what the scientific method is?   Do you know what empirical data is?   Do you know what anecdotal data is?   Do you understand cause and effect?           Edited by Cee Jay 55, 2016-03-30 10:56:44"

Regarding you're first paragraph: I stated before and will state again that I do not know All the answers to the questions i posed. I got None of those questions from a anti-vaxx site or acquaintances. I hardly made any statements at all, But mostly asked questions to illustrate there is still a choice here that should belong to the parents, and only the parents. All those questions came straight from my head, as it's been ages since I looked up a anti-vax site.  
Second paragraph: Pro-Choice lol. Pro- definition: in favor of. Choice definition: an act or instance of choosing: selection.  
I am fully aware of how it is used most of the time, but i find it totally appropriate to use here in this context. Yes' I realize it might rub some people the wrong way. but like I say I am not anti-vax but pro-choice and i am trying to highlight THAT point against the anti-choice alternative.  
4th Paragraph: Yes I answered your questions. All your questions were asking me if I know ____? to which the answer is YES. Actually The same answers applies to The other questions you posed in paragraph 8. Do you assume everyone who does not agree with you is stupid?  
Paragraph 5: I fully realize Why you asked if I smoked. You figured maybe I was a hypocrite. I am aware of the chemicals in smokes and I don't smoke. Do You personally know anybody that doesn't vaccinate but smokes? have you seen studies that prove that most anti-vaxers smoke? Do you have prove on that statement?  
Last point concerning your scenario: You can exercise your Choice in that scenario and not wear a helmet if you want. Up to you. There might be consequences tho. If you told another person they can ride without one, that is on you. But again it is their choice unless they are children. If those children are not yours I do have a problem with it, however if they are yours it isn't any of my business. That's my view on it, however the law already exist and whatever your choice, If the Law catches you, there are also consequences.  
 
PRO-CHOICE

Enfyre said "DID YOUR DOCTOR INFORM YOU OF THE RISK ASSOCIATED WITH ANY VACCINE YOU GIVE/HAVE GIVEN YOUR CHILDREN? Possibility of slight fever. There was no fever.   DID THEY MOSTLY FOCUS ON THE PRO'S? I was talking to a Doctor not a sales person, there was no pressure.   DID THEY INFORM YOU WHAT HEAVY METALS ARE IN THE VACCINE? No, and they didn't play a slideshow either..   WHAT HEAVY METALS WERE IN THE VACCINE? Just a miniscule amount of aluminum.     DID THEY INFORM YOU WHAT THE GUIDELINES ARE ON THOSE HEAVY METALS? The amounts are insignificant, about 1/32 of FDA annual limit (for babies).   GUIDELINES?  I guess don't get 32 vaccines in one year.   IN WHICH ORGANISMS WERE THOSE VIRUSES CULTIVATED?  Viruses grown in activated and continuous cell lines. Bacteria in Petri dishes.   RATS? MICE? PIGS?  No live animals.   ANY PART OF THOSE ANIMALS?  Rats&mice - No, unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary. Some vaccines contain porcine gelatin.   WOULD YOU FORCE A JEWISH PERSON TO TAKE A VACCINE THAT WAS CULTURED IN ANY PART OF THOSE ORGANISMS?  Science has no sympathy for peoples fanatical beliefs, but yes, all vaccines are kosher.   WERE YOU INFORMED OF ANY AND ALL THE THE INGREDIENTS?  No there was no seminar provided.   WAS PEANUT OIL PART OF THE INGREDIENTS?  There is no peanut oil in modern vaccines.   HAS PEANUT ALLERGIES BEEN TOTALLY RULED OUT AS A SUSPECT IN THOSE ALLERGIES? WHERE ARE THE STUDIES WHICH CONCLUDE THAT THE SCIENCE IS SOLID?  Peanut oil is non-allergenic, but since there is no peanut oil in vaccines no studies are required.   ARE THERE OTHER METHODS OF VACCINATIONS FOR HUMANS THAT DON'T REQUIRE THOSE PRODUCTS BEING INJECTED DIRECTLY INTO THE BLOODSTREAM?  Child vaccines are delivered via intramuscular injection, not directly to the bloodstream.   IS THERE A FORM I CAN ADD TO MY WATER AS THERE IS WITH SOME ANIMAL VACCINES?     OR A FORM I COULD BREATHE IN?     IS INJECTION THE ONLY METHOD?  Yes there are some drinkable and aerosol versions of some vaccines but not all, more are in development.   IT IS WELL KNOWN FACT THAT DIET IS A MAJOR FACTOR IN THE IMMUNE SYSTEMS ABILITY TO FIGHT A VIRUS, WOULD YOU BE OK WITH A LAW THAT LIMITS YOUR FOOD CONSUMPTION TO WHOLE FOOD, FRUIT AND VEGETABLES?   Yes.   WOULD YOU BE OK WITH OUTLAWING PACKAGED JUNK FOOD, POP, BACON, AND OTHER UNHEALTHY PRODUCTS?   Yes.   WHERE WOULD YOU DRAW THE LINE?  At a certain nutritional threshold.   I AM PRO-CHOICE, AND VALUE THE ABILITY TO MAKE AN CHOICE.     DO YOU VALUE YOURS? I let the evidence decide for me.   DID YOU REALLY MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION, OR DID YOU RELY ON SOMEONE ELSE TO BE INFORMED? I relied on the combined knowledge of thousands of scientists and millions of hours of study and development over many decades.     Edited by Enfyre, 2016-03-30 12:35:37"

Good Job That is all I asked.  
I'm Just going to highlight a couple of points.  
Based on the answers of the first 3 questions, my OPINION is that the doctor neglected in his duties to properly inform you, so you could make an informed decision.  
To highlight what I mean I suggest you read the vaccine package insert for the mmr vaccine.  
As for heavy metals. You mentioned Aluminum. Do you Know the concentration? I have not found what the concentrations are in the Canadian vaccines and find that to be a vital piece of information needed to make an informed choice. I have found concentrations listed on some vaccines that were concerningly high, however I was not sure if they were used in Canada. The concentration you did list was 1/32 of the FDA annual limit. How many vaccines are babies getting in one year? I know there not getting 32, that isn't my point. My point is they seem to be exceeding their daily limit, however I don't know that since I don't Know the daily limit. (Here is what I mean, If I took some poison which would be fatal in one dose and spread it out over 365 days, it would no longer be fatal although it may still be harmful.) So That one dose of 1/32 of the annual limit is injected in a single day.  
Than is the issue that we are only talking of that specific vaccine you mentioned which you left unnamed might have different amounts of aluminum than other vaccines those children might also get that year.  
You see we might get plenty of aluminum from our diet. My point is not only are we adding to what we are already getting, but we are bypassing the digestive system which would have a much lower absorption rate and injecting it directly into our bodies ensuring a 100% absorption rate.  
Peanut oil: I know it was used in the past however am not sure if it still used.  
Rats, mice, and other animals used in vaccines: I'll admit that I was going by memory when i wrote that, however The mmr vaccine uses eggs and bovine parts in their vaccines, although it is vague on exactly which species.  
Some other vaccines use monkey lung, and that is defiantly not Kosher.  
Thanks for correcting me on the how the vaccine is delivered (intramuscular vs bloodstream)  
I'm going to skip to one of the last questions you answered: I AM PRO-CHOICE, AND VALUE THE ABILITY TO MAKE AN CHOICE. DO YOU VALUE YOURS? I let the evidence decide for me.  
This is exactly my point, that every parent can make an informed decision based on the evidence an not forced by either camp on there decision.  
 
Oh one more comment concerning your surprising answer on if we should outlaw Junk food. I wouldn't outlaw it, but i am for taxing it under a non-profit tax. tax the junk food and use the money to lower prices on organic and healthy products.  
 
Pro-choice not anti-choice.

It seems like a point that keeps getting missed with the whole "it's my personal choice" diatribe is that, it's not a choice that affects only you. You bear some responsibility for others around you.  
 
Unless you live like a hermit where neither you nor your child ever come into contact with other people, you're increasing the risk to others not only your unvaccinated self.  
 
To the junk food analogy. If you eating junk food every day made everyone that you come into contact with more prone to diseases brought on by unhealthy diets, then, yes, those foods would be regulated.  
 
Not only this, but unvaccinated individuals in a populaton of vaccinated individuals actually increase the mutation rate of these pathogens.  
 
Even though vaccinations drive this "need" for the virus to mutate, and they do (which is why we need new vaccines so often), the mutated strains need a good host to replicate the new strain, and that's hard to do in an immune populaton where the population of candidates for mutation are often killed before it has a chance to mutate. Enter the unvaccinated individual, a walking petri dish.  
 
So in a nutshell, having un-imunized individuals in a larger immunized population is very bad, because, counter-intuitively, it drives this mutation cycle even faster.  
 
It's one of those things that either everyone does it, or it isn't going to have the best effect.

It's "Definitely" not "Defiantly"! Too many people here use the wrong word.

" All those questions came straight from my head, as it's been ages since I looked up a anti-vax site."  
 
If you don't know all the answers, look them up on RELIABLE websites with peer reviewed scientific data. So, I was right about that.  
 
"Pro-Choice lol. Pro- definition: in favor of. Choice definition: an act or instance of choosing: selection."  
 
If "pro-choice"= choosing NOT to vaccinate, especially when based on ridiculous anti-vax web-site information then yes, you are anti-vax.  
 
Okay then:  
 
What is a virus?  
How does a virus work?  
How does a vaccine work?  
What are T-cells?  
How do T-cells work?  
What is the difference between a virus and bacteria?  
What is the scientific method?  
What is empirical data?  
What is anecdotal data?  
 
I don't presume to be smarter than anyone who disagrees with me, unless it is over something that can be learned through academia and research and they are CLEARLY wrong and will not listen to the truth. I am smart, though. I love to learn and try (when I can) to educate people when they are wrong and blindly follow idiotic theories and false information.  
 
And if you choose to answer my questions, please, in your own words, not "cut and paste"  
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Cee Jay 55, 2016-03-31 10:48:42

I'm sort of curious of peoples vaccination history, and I'll start with mine. I went through the complete vaccination program that was offered from the time I was born until I was out of the school system, since then there has only been numerous tetanus shots because I do get dirty wounds, so far have not had any flu shots. Anyone else wish to contribute.

Same as you. My father administered most of my vaccines but I also received them via the school system and through my family Doctor.  
 
I did have a friend die in junior high from Hepatitis so our whole family had to get a series of vaccines for that.  
 
I keep getting boosters for tetanus and that is once every ten years.  
 
I don't get flu shots though I feel they are invaluable to the elderly and the young who have not developed a stronger immune response for viruses.  
 
I never was vaccinated against measles and did acquire the virus when I was 6 or 7. I remember being sicker than I have ever been since. I spent days on the family couch unable to get up for any length of time due to the fever and exhaustion I felt. Thankfully my father was a Doctor and my mother had been a nurse. At the time, my father ran the local hospital so I was kept at home in order for my mother to keep a close eye on me. I don't think the measles vaccine had been developed at the time... I'm not sure though.  
 
 
Yes, a quick search shows the vaccine was developed in 1963, after I had contracted them.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Cee Jay 55, 2016-03-31 12:41:42

A doctor doesn't have the time and its not their job to educate vaccine recipients, their job is to ask do you want it or not? Or in other words, do you have trust that modern health sciences is not out to poison your children, and has undertaken immense amounts of experiments and study to ensure the vaccines are safe.  
Even if the Doctor sent all recipients on a weekend seminar so they could make an informed decision, it still wouldn't be enough, there would hardly be enough time to even scratch the surface on the very basics of immunology and vaccines.  
 
So inform yourself by looking at the track record, examine and inform yourself on that evidence, look at the tiny risks that are only written there for liability and not because they actually are an issue, and compare it to the risks of the diseases that they protect against, do you really trust a healthy diet to protect your children fom hepatitis and tetanus just to name a couple?  
 
Look at smallpox, used to kill 300,000 people a year just in Europe, now it doesn't exist.  
We could see similar eradications of more diseases with vaccines, but the anti-vaccination movement or those who choose not to get them threaten to derail all the progress.  
 
First the controversy was on the mercury preservative (thimerosal) even though all evidence deemed it be be safe in the levels and delivery methods used, mass hysteria and an anti-vaccination movement erupted because a word associated with poison was seen in the ingredients.(to simplify it)  
 
In an effort to stop the controversy they gave in and recently removed the thimerosal, you would think that would be the end of the anti-vaccination movement, but no the movement moves on and finds a new bogey-man, now it's aluminum salts.  
 
I don't know the exact level of aluminum for each vaccine, I don't see why they wouldn't be all very similar, the FDA sets the limit of the amount of aluminum that a baby can get in the first year of life FROM vaccines at at 4.225mg which is half of the total aluminum allowed from all sources. The hepatitis B vaccine, given at birth contains .25mg.  
 
You should be much much more worried about the amount of aluminum in baby formula which ranges from .1mg to .43mg per litre. That's like a vaccine(or 2) a day.. Oh no what have I started..  
http://bmcpediatr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2431-13-162  
 
As for your concern that the aluminum from a vaccine hitting the bloodstream all at once would be what does the damage, well it's a good question and concern, however it doesn't seem to be an issue for worry, heres a study that's specific to this concern:  
 
http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1712578  
 
To sum it up the study showed that postvaccination serum aluminum levels rose only 1%, peaking within 24 hours of vaccination. Perhaps this is due to the intramuscular injection, not sure, but regardless its a non issue.  

First off, pro vaccination likely to a greater degree than pome of the other posters, but, and for me there always seems to be that but part. We talk of the safety of vaccines, but ask a doctor about the procedure of reporting an adverse reaction to a vaccine, you might be shocked at the reply, and may not even get one.  
This might be a terrible thing to say, but at times I feel that animal medicine is slightly ahead of the curve when it comes to vaccines. There is a push on for more of the vaccines for animals to be ainistered by means other than injection, and part of the reason has to do with the economic loss suffered because of these reactions to the carriers, in which the killed or modified viruses are suspended in. In the livestock industry you do see the reactions and in the human population the reactions do occur as well, but it seems that documentation of reactions is not recorded, or if it is, it is not published. That is why at the present time I find it very difficult to condem anyone who makes the choice against vaccinations.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/medical/#mdcl_xpns  
 
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/  
 
http://immunizebc.ca/sites/default/files/docs/ICPages13and14.pdf

Perhaps some of the small side effects like fever or rash etc. go under reported, that wouldn't surprise me, but it would be kind of hard to not report something serious like anaphylaxis or death, the kind of adverse reactions that actually matter. And I would wonder about the amount of development and quality control between vaccines destined for livestock and those destined for humans.  
 
This anti vaccination controversy reminds me a lot of the seatbelt and then the airbag controversies of the past, actually it prefectly mirrors it, people thinking that whiplash from the belt or broken nose from airbag was worse than their face smashing through the windshield, or being ejected from a rolling vehicle and in the process suffering a dismemberment, decapitation, or being crushed, completely ridiculous logic.  
 
Somebody could say that because seatbelt and airbags have caused injury in the past, and that there could be under-reporting, that it's safer to no wear a seatbelt and turn off the airbag. No different than what the anti vaccinators (or should I say science deniers) are doing.  
 
But what Im saying, and this is to all issues, is to look at the BIG picture, look at the evidence, the statistics. See how a world without vaccines would cause more death than a world with vaccines.  
Or a world without seatbelts and airbags would cause more death and injury than a world with them  
 
But I'm not trying to condemn anyone, just questioning the rationale.

I find it amusing that people are all for pro choice regarding vaccines. So its ok that someone may be carrying a virus that can infect many people, not just themselves, but I cant send a peanut butter sandwich to school with my kid because someone may have allergies where it only affects one kid yet your choice not to get a vaccine may effect everyone they are in contact with I think schools should make the vaccines mandatory if you don't want to follow the rules send your kid elsewhere to school, call it the peanut butter sandwich rule, why should your choice have a diverse effect on someone else

ago, whether people vaccinate themselves or their children. The anger I would feel listening to parents saying that "I don't vaccinate my kids and they're perfectly healthy". I would explode to my husband, family, and friends. Then I read somewhere that why should parents who vaccinate their children be upset at those who don't. After all our vaccinated kids have nothing to worry about. That's true, now that my youngest is 2, I don't obsess anymore about him, or my other two's health. However, when my youngest was 8 weeks old, not yet vaccinated, he got sick. His father and I thought he was having digestive issues due to switching his formula. Brought him into the er (it was a Saturday) and to our horror, found out that he was fighting for his life. He was diagnosed with haemophilus influenzae type A, bacterial meningitis. How? how did my perfectly healthy baby get meningitis? I can not even begin to describe, how hard it was watching him, lying there helpless, fighting for his life, in extreme pain. Blaming ourselves for missing his 8 week appointment and shots. Thought there is no vaccine for the type of meningitis he had. The amount of support we had, from family, friends, and strangers from all over the world was extremely wonderful, with all the support came the stories from parents that were not as lucky as we were. Meningitis is a "tricky" illness, the symptoms are very similar to the flu, most deaths are because of misdiagnosis or diagnosed to late. I still obsess over his health, even thought he's a wonderful healthy boy, every time hes tired, fevered, cranky, I panic.  
So is it worth the risk to not vaccinate your children or yourselves? Maybe take a minute to think about all the people, children who have lost their lives due to illnesses that could of been prevented because of vaccines.

Large outbreak of Measles in Edmonton. They were just taking about it on the news.  
Wouldn't want to be trying to get in to that hospital for a much needed operation. Also the cost of hospital to the hospital...thus the taxpayers go up.  
As one person stated , with the return of the disease more mutations will become more common.

how many of the anti vaxxers were vaccinated as a child,but now refuse to allow their children to be vaxxinated.  
 
have any of you anti vaxxers thought about what you are going to say to your child when they come home form school and learn about vaxxination and what it is.  
 
worse if they develop one of the preventable diseases.  
 
the science is in and well established. yes there is a risk with vaccinations but there is a greater risk without it.

braid said "Large outbreak of Measles in Edmonton. They were just taking about it on the news.   Wouldn't want to be trying to get in to that hospital for a much needed operation. Also the cost of hospital to the hospital...thus the taxpayers go up.   As one person stated , with the return of the disease more mutations will become more common. "

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/life-video/video-ctv-calgary-measles-outbreak-at-edmonton-hospital/article29471629/  
 
And the fools choosing not to vaccinate because of anti-vax garbage are heaping an unnecessary risk to their children.  
 
But there is no point in pointing out the risk to them - they believe the bullcrap on anti-vax websites.  
 
They probably share Bill Gates photograph on Facebook too, thinking they will get $10,000

I have read through some of these last few comments and although I'm not laughing about the outbreak of measles I'm somewhat amused. There has been much talk about science, and what I do find somewhat disturbing is the lack of understanding about some of the vaccinations that people have had over the years, that was part of the reason about asking about people's vaccination history. Cee Jay was honest with his answer, and most of us share a similar history.  
Here is a part of the science that seems to be ignored, or maybe most people are ignorant of. The introduction of the measles outbreak brings a scientic point to the forefront. In regards to the measle vaccine or immunity to the disease, it has been the understanding that someone born prior to 1957 has natural immunity because of measles outbreaks, but what people don't understand is that the vaccine that was used between 1957 and 1971 was not a vaccine that actually worked, so without being revaccinated we have many people who can develope or spread the disease. Also when it comes to how long a vaccine provides protection, science has proved that the vaccine for diphtheria does not last as long as many of us believe. Diphtheria can be a very serious disease for infants, and most of us are not carrying immunity to this disease as well. Cee Jay mentioned about meningitis, this bug seems to make it rounds nearly every year, and although there is a vaccination for this disease I doubt that many people get it, even those who work with infants likely don't bother. I guess people don't maybe understand the severity of meningitis in infants. I guess it would likely be the same with the meningitis vaccine as with many others, we figure once we are vaccinated we are good to go, but in many instances science says no.

What happens when the child of an anti-vaxxer develops an illness that they have declined to be immunized against? Are they going to expect the health care system to absorb the costs of the medical treatment required as a result of their decision? In my opinion, if they choose not to vaccinate then it should be the parent's responsibility to pay the expenses which occur as a result. The financial impact should not be passed on to everyone else.

Abby :) said "What happens when the child of an anti-vaxxer develops an illness that they have declined to be immunized against? Are they going to expect the health care system to absorb the costs of the medical treatment required as a result of their decision? In my opinion, if they choose not to vaccinate then it should be the parent's responsibility to pay the expenses which occur as a result. The financial impact should not be passed on to everyone else. "

If it a preventable disease and they refuse to vaccinate, yes, they should be responsible for costs - not you and I.