Discussions

I've used that same RBC and they questioned me on a cheque of less than $40. Mistaking a cheque that large (especially a fake one) is RBC's mistake.  
 
New immigrants often have to go through a more complex process with cheques that big.  
 
The teller is obviously at fault. A huge bank like RBC has room for error. Even large banks have insurance coverage.

According to the rules for Immigration & Citizenship Canada, a hold should have been put on the check before it was cashed.

Jx89 said "I've used that same RBC and they questioned me on a cheque of less than $40. Mistaking a cheque that large (especially a fake one) is RBC's mistake.     New immigrants often have to go through a more complex process with cheques that big.     The teller is obviously at fault. A huge bank like RBC has room for error. Even large banks have insurance coverage. "

How is the teller suppose to know if they are new immigrants to Canada if they have an account at the bank and a local address they may have lived in Canada for years. If the teller was to ask everyone with a different accent or look if they are new immigrants to Canada you can bet there would be people on here crying about social or racial profiling or something else. Sure the bank probably has insurance but like others have said if they don''t hold the victims somewhat accountable then everyone would just be cashing in on the free money scam.  
 
Edited by ohyeah, 2016-07-12 07:45:39

My credit union held my cheque that I went to cash that was over $10,000. They would not let me forward or spend that money until the cheque cleared.

Your friend needs to contact the head office and speak to someone who is NOT from BRANDON !!! What the local bank did here was wrong ! They making customer pay for their mistake before Head Office finds out,

Your friend needs to contact the head office and speak to someone who is NOT from BRANDON !!! What the local bank did here was wrong ! They making customer pay for their mistake before Head Office finds out,

KM68 said "If I read the article correctly, she lied to the bank when they asked her where the cheque was from. First rule of thumb, if someone asks you to lie than you really need to step back and reevaluate the situation. "

Yes she did, but the scammers were crafty and made her think she was doing work by "mystery shopping" at the bank and evaluating the teller.  
 
It's not RBC's fault but it would have been nice if they had warned her to wait and see if the cheque clears for at least a couple weeks. She is new to the country and speaking a second language. I am sorry they were scammed.

They have technology to check funds on cheques and even holding funds , when unsure they can make a phone call to that bank and request funds be held . ITS THE BANKS RESPONSIBILITY to investigate and remedy this.

Usually if a person deposits a cheque and sends the money, then the cheque is reversed, it's the person who deposited it who is liable. Why did she not wait until it cleared to spend it?? That's what would happen to anyone else; I don't believe that this should be the banks responsibility at all. Unfortunately she fell for a scam, but she was also dishonest.

Firstly I'm the one who arranged Kate's Brandon Sun Interview because her husband and herself felt it was important to notify other potential victims. Secondly, The article was discussed and approved by the victim.  
Instead of trying to be "Mr. Oh I'm so smart"  
perhaps ask politely if asked their permission first. You give Brandonites a bad name.

The reason I i:ncluded those details was because I want Brandon to know that these are real people. GOOD PEOPLE. If you had the priveledge of knowing the whole family you would want all of Brandon to stand behind them. They are just HONEST - REALLY HARD WORKING - LOVING PEOPLE. I was hoping that the people of Brandon would have reassured them that this could have happened to anyone. That Brandon was the right choice to spread their wings and raise a child. I'm starting to feel ashamed that the Brandon I thought was out there is slowly turning to a cold bitter and pessimistic town. As for all the commenters that commented that she may have perhaps had a hand in this?? Remind yourself... she is a trusted public figure. A school teacher. Not someone who is flying by the seat of her pants.

A teller has a client profile that tells them how long the client has been banking at their institution. She also has instant access to determine if the client has ever processed transactions of similar amounts. Simple common sense on the part of the teller should have raised a huge red flag immediately.

ohyeah said "    Jx89 said "I've used that same RBC and they questioned me on a cheque of less than $40. Mistaking a cheque that large (especially a fake one) is RBC's mistake.     New immigrants often have to go through a more complex process with cheques that big.     The teller is obviously at fault. A huge bank like RBC has room for error. Even large banks have insurance coverage. " How is the teller suppose to know if they are new immigrants to Canada if they have an account at the bank and a local address they may have lived in Canada for years. If the teller was to ask everyone with a different accent or look if they are new immigrants to Canada you can bet there would be people on here crying about social or racial profiling or something else. Sure the bank probably has insurance but like others have said if they don''t hold the victims somewhat accountable then everyone would just be cashing in on the free money scam.     Edited by ohyeah, 2016-07-12 07:45:39"

RBC Client Profiles come up instantly when you appear in front of a teller and present your card. It tells them who you are, where you work, where you live and a history of ALL your previous transactions. Most importantly it tells them how long you have been a client and the largest transaction value you have ever posted to that single account. So how does a $19000.00 transaction slip bye a teller when the only other deposits to the account would be from Tim Horton''s or Maple Leaf. Was the teller on dope or dog food lol???  
 
Edited by Bootsy Boo Boo, 2016-07-12 11:02:23

Sadly, it doesn't matter how good, hardworking or honest a person is. The responsibility still lies with the victim. The banks follow a strict set of rules, and as much as everyone likes to hate them, the rules are very clear.  
 
1. The government limits the amount of time a bank can hold funds on a cheque. The RBC policy is 4 business days, as per their website.  
2. To clear the cheque, the bank needs to send the cheque to the financial institution from which the cheque was written. They then need to verify that the account has the funds to cover the cheque, then they transfer the money. This can easily take several days, as the Canadian banking industry processes about a billion cheques annually.  
3. The teller at the bank did question the amount and source of the cheque, and the victim lied about it because she thought that was what she was supposed to do based on the scammer's instructions. Thinking you're doing the right thing by lying does not absolve you of the consequences.  
4. If the banks implemented an interrogation policy, or if they were required to determine whether to accept your cheque based on how much money you already have, or your recent banking history, people would be up in arms about discrimination against people with less money or recent immigrants. The bank asked a question, the victim gave a reasonable answer "it was money from her father", so the questioning was over. If she had said it was payment for a job or contract work, or something like that, then it would have likely triggered more questions from the teller. Imagine if you were selling an item, maybe a car or boat so you could purchase another car or something else and the person gave you a cheque for $15,000 as payment. Then you take the cheque to the bank and the bank says thank you, your funds will be available in about 2 weeks. People would freak out over that.  
5. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. She was getting $1,000 compensation for going to the bank to deposit a cheque, take a shopping trip to Walmart and then going to 3 banks to transfer money. If she didn't want to raise alarm bells at the bank, she could have asked a friend or co-worker about it.  
 
It's terribly unfortunate, but you can't blame the bank for this. You can't make the system fool proof without causing a huge disruption for a lot of people. So there are a set of rules and policies in place to try and manage the payment system efficiently, but there are some gaps. The scammers knew exactly what the gaps were, and found someone who didn't know, and didn't know to ask. It doesn't make the victim stupid or bad, but not knowing doesn't absolve her of responsibility. When you deal with a bank (or credit union), you are responsible for what you deposit, and if you deposit a fraudulent cheque, you're on the hook for it.  
 
It's an embarrassing situation to admit you've been swindled like that, it's very brave of her to come forward with the hopes of helping others avoid the same fate. I wish the best for her and her family.

What most believe is that banking institutions have some sort of insurance coverage for fraud... That's incorrect. Credit card companies have different levels of coverage, not banking, savings or chequing accounts. If someone uses your credit card unlawfully, the amount from just those unauthorized purchases with that card are covered through their insurance paid through the card holders usage/service/interest rate charges. That cannot be said the same with ATM/debit cards. The bank will always assist and cooperate with an police investigation involving in fraudulent debit card losses, but will never reimburse those transactions, unless proven that it was the institution was fault in their security measures.  
 
The use of cheques is a horribly flawed and an archaic system in banking for transferring money using these notes, but we still have a use for them. As a landlord, I deal with them monthly and I've had my "fair share" of NSF's. Some of those "bad cheques" will come back within four business days, others as long as two weeks. It's sometimes the "luck of the draw". Many factors play in why the time discrepancy... Civic holidays, the type of banking institution and it's procedures, the chequing accounts home location (branch, province, country), heck!... even who's working there that day plays into it. LOL I hate the system, because there's nothing like the dread of chasing down someones rent money past the 15th. Some knowingly take advantage of the lag and I can be out of a lot of money before it's all over when dealing with deliberate fraudsters. But, it's been like this since the beginning of banking to use these promissory notes as a form of payment without the use physical money. We as the public don't have any say or control over it and quite frankly, I don't believe the banks do either. A mans word or their name they stand with means nothing now-a-days, but we refuse to ban the chequing practice simply on the fact that our society can't give up the convenience it provides of not having cash always on hand. Debit cards has definitely brought the number of cheques being used. But due to payment amount restrictions and their availability limitations, that simple little piece of paper with a account number and your signature will still always have a useful purpose.  
 
Until cheap practical technology can be developed where money and credit can be easily transferred from one individual to another, we are stuck with cheques. Live with the system and be wary of the flaws, limitations and dangers of using it.  
 
As for this fraud case... She should of called on the bank for a confirmation of that cheque before spending "on the behalf" of this "secret shopper agency" (or whatever it was) and then returning "the remaining funds". That's just foolishness on her part in trusting strangers and people she never met. The bank can't and shouldn't be held accountable for her lack of judgement. They just store/secure her money assets and do as she requests them to do so. It's not their responsibility to watch how she manages her account or if she risks putting herself into overdraft. Any money coming into her account is neither hers or the banks until the transfer is complete with a confirmation. Simple as that. Personally though, I always thought that when depositing cheques, the bank should have a separate column of money in the transitioning/transferring process of be held until confirmation. In this age of tech, it would be a simple thing to do. But, I'm already nailed with enough banking fees. I don't need any more, if it just means that I need to continue keeping my chequing/savings account balanced the "old fashioned way".  
 
It's a hard lesson and hopefully others can learn from this story. All the best to her and her family.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

RandomGuy said "Step 2: Pick a credit union "

Step 3.  
 
Earn nothing for interest and pay a fee for everything.

she is an English teacher, so it can't be blamed on being uneducated. I can't be blamed on just moving here, it happens all over the world. Being a teacher, she should researched, researched and more research. Sounds to good to be true it is. I am sorry for the family, she has been taken, but it is her fault.

I feel badly for this hard working family, but at the same time, I''m wondering why the emphasis (from media and others) is on the immigrant status.  
 
Scams happen worldwide and that''s no surprise. In fact, many scams originate from all over the world and aware and educated people, which I''m thinking the recipient is, might have been suspicious in a huge advance such as this no matter where in the world you live. I''m sure on the other side of the world, people are aware of fishy scams.  
 
Scammers stating that you must tell an untruth when going to the bank to cash this large cheque would be a huge red flag. Lying to the big banks here is a huge error in judgement.  
 
There is a saying "If someone told you to jump off a bridge...."  
 
This is a very unfortunate incident.  
 
I hope they catch the perpetrators, but I think in this case, the victim may have no recourse. There was an untruth told, and the banks don't like that, whether or not the victim or 'scammee' believed it.  
 
Edited by Kellye, 2016-07-12 12:42:50

Bootsy Boo Boo said "    ohyeah said "    Jx89 said "I've used that same RBC and they questioned me on a cheque of less than $40. Mistaking a cheque that large (especially a fake one) is RBC's mistake.     New immigrants often have to go through a more complex process with cheques that big.     The teller is obviously at fault. A huge bank like RBC has room for error. Even large banks have insurance coverage. " How is the teller suppose to know if they are new immigrants to Canada if they have an account at the bank and a local address they may have lived in Canada for years. If the teller was to ask everyone with a different accent or look if they are new immigrants to Canada you can bet there would be people on here crying about social or racial profiling or something else. Sure the bank probably has insurance but like others have said if they don''t hold the victims somewhat accountable then everyone would just be cashing in on the free money scam.     Edited by ohyeah, 2016-07-12 07:45:39" RBC Client Profiles come up instantly when you appear in front of a teller and present your card. It tells them who you are, where you work, where you live and a history of ALL your previous transactions. Most importantly it tells them how long you have been a client and the largest transaction value you have ever posted to that single account. So how does a $19000.00 transaction slip bye a teller when the only other deposits to the account would be from Tim Horton''s or Maple Leaf. Was the teller on dope or dog food lol???     Edited by Bootsy Boo Boo, 2016-07-12 11:02:23"

It sounds like they did question the amount and then she lied and said it was from her father so how is that the tellers fault if the client lied just like the scammers lied, maybe if she had said it was from a secert shopper job site then the teller might or hopefully would have done more.  
 
I am not blaming her and it is to bad that this happened but life sucks some times and you can bet or i hope they have learned a valuable lesson just learnt it the hard way and hopefully others will learn from her mistake.  
 
Edited by ohyeah, 2016-07-12 12:36:27

Kellye said "I feel badly for this hard working family, but at the same time, I'm wondering why the emphasis (from media and others) is on the immigrant status.     Scams happen worldwide and that's no surprise. In fact, many scams originate from all over the world and aware and educated people, which I'm thinking the recipient is, might have been suspicious in a huge advance such as this no matter where in the world you live. I'm sure on the other side of the world, people are aware of fishy scams.     Scammers stating that you must tell an untruth when going to the bank to cash this large cheque would be a huge red flag. Lying to the big banks here is a huge error in judgement. Maybe it is different overseas.     Again, this is a very unfortunate incident.     I hope they catch the perpetrators, but I think in this case, the victim may have no recourse. "

I think the media is over playing the "immigrant" status to generate more sympathy. There seems to reason to be focusing on that fact either, there should not be a language barrier as she is an ENGLISH TEACHER.  
 
There was a lady recently taken by a ridiculous scam that convinced her that the Government of Canada wanted her to go out and buy dozens of iTunes cards and call in the serial numbers. Her status as a retiree, a white woman, a Canadian, etc was not a part of the story.  
 
It was a very unfortunate incident - but a really stupid error in judgment. And so called friends of this family that heard anything about this are just as at fault as anyone if they did not do anything to clue her in.  
 
Here's hoping this story prompts enough awareness that no one else falls for these outrageous scams.

TryThisName said "Sadly, it doesn't matter how good, hardworking or honest a person is. The responsibility still lies with the victim. The banks follow a strict set of rules, and as much as everyone likes to hate them, the rules are very clear.     1. The government limits the amount of time a bank can hold funds on a cheque. The RBC policy is 4 business days, as per their website.   2. To clear the cheque, the bank needs to send the cheque to the financial institution from which the cheque was written. They then need to verify that the account has the funds to cover the cheque, then they transfer the money. This can easily take several days, as the Canadian banking industry processes about a billion cheques annually.   3. The teller at the bank did question the amount and source of the cheque, and the victim lied about it because she thought that was what she was supposed to do based on the scammer's instructions. Thinking you're doing the right thing by lying does not absolve you of the consequences.   4. If the banks implemented an interrogation policy, or if they were required to determine whether to accept your cheque based on how much money you already have, or your recent banking history, people would be up in arms about discrimination against people with less money or recent immigrants. The bank asked a question, the victim gave a reasonable answer "it was money from her father", so the questioning was over. If she had said it was payment for a job or contract work, or something like that, then it would have likely triggered more questions from the teller. Imagine if you were selling an item, maybe a car or boat so you could purchase another car or something else and the person gave you a cheque for $15,000 as payment. Then you take the cheque to the bank and the bank says thank you, your funds will be available in about 2 weeks. People would freak out over that.   5. If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. She was getting $1,000 compensation for going to the bank to deposit a cheque, take a shopping trip to Walmart and then going to 3 banks to transfer money. If she didn't want to raise alarm bells at the bank, she could have asked a friend or co-worker about it.     It's terribly unfortunate, but you can't blame the bank for this. You can't make the system fool proof without causing a huge disruption for a lot of people. So there are a set of rules and policies in place to try and manage the payment system efficiently, but there are some gaps. The scammers knew exactly what the gaps were, and found someone who didn't know, and didn't know to ask. It doesn't make the victim stupid or bad, but not knowing doesn't absolve her of responsibility. When you deal with a bank (or credit union), you are responsible for what you deposit, and if you deposit a fraudulent cheque, you're on the hook for it.     It's an embarrassing situation to admit you've been swindled like that, it's very brave of her to come forward with the hopes of helping others avoid the same fate. I wish the best for her and her family. "

This is exactly how I think also. She didn't do it on purpose, but she is responsible. Now maybe someone could start a gofundme page and we could all help this family by each kicking in $10 or $20 to help pay it back. That would show the family how great our ebrandon community is

for when cashing a cheque that the person needed to have the amount of the cheque in their own account to cover it just in case the cheque bounced?

Johnbisonbear said "for when cashing a cheque that the person needed to have the amount of the cheque in their own account to cover it just in case the cheque bounced? "

I was thinking the same thing however, many years ago my Dad helped me out and I did not have the funds in my account to cover the amount of the cheque. I did have to wait to draw upon those funds, but I did have access to the funds I already had in the account. We also banked at the same institution and there was no doubt that the funds would clear.  
 
That said .....how do we know there wasn’t already $19,000.00 or more in the account and the funds she forwarded to the other institutions were from the existing balance? The dollar amounts quoted in the article are what the victim told the reporter. The bank can not release any personal information about their clients, especially to the media, and will give only the “corporate approved statements.”  
 
While the victim may be telling her side of the story, I believe there are a whole bunch of other details that have been inadvertently or purposely not shared. The bank can’t necessarily defend their actions as disclosure of client interaction or clarification of the story may breach the Privacy Act.  
 
It is an unfortunate situation and I hope this comes to a just resolve.

Bootsy Boo Boo said "The reason I i:ncluded those details was because I want Brandon to know that these are real people. GOOD PEOPLE. If you had the priveledge of knowing the whole family you would want all of Brandon to stand behind them. They are just HONEST - REALLY HARD WORKING - LOVING PEOPLE. I was hoping that the people of Brandon would have reassured them that this could have happened to anyone. That Brandon was the right choice to spread their wings and raise a child. I'm starting to feel ashamed that the Brandon I thought was out there is slowly turning to a cold bitter and pessimistic town. As for all the commenters that commented that she may have perhaps had a hand in this?? Remind yourself... she is a trusted public figure. A school teacher. Not someone who is flying by the seat of her pants. "

If you haven't noticed most of the time eBrandon is not a place to look for sympathy. It doesn't matter if they are an immigrant, hard worker, lazy worker, etc. Scammers don't care who they scam. Why is it when someone screws up it should fall on the shoulders of everyone else? Like you said "trusted public figure." An English teacher so it isn't like they didn't understand what was going on. Can you honestly tell yourself that if I was to offer you 19 grand to deposit into a bank account as a mystery shopper and told to lie about where the money came from, then ask you to transfer the money to other accounts that would not raise any red flags in your mind? I mean the other spouse didn't catch it, friends, anyone? That kind of coin I am sure they would have told someone about it.....Hey I got a cheque for 19 grand to transfer to other accounts for mystery shopping a teller. At what point do we lose our own accountability of taking responsibility for our own actions?

Just curious, since when can bank tellers not read? I'm sure the check wasn't sent from a Russian bank. Like it was probably some Canadian or American bank. Teller should have been smart enough looking at the check to figure it wasn't sent from mother Russia. I do agree that it is still part fault of the victim but there should also be part blame on the cashier for not realizing something is fishy looking at the check and being told it was from her father in Russia. Unfortunately hard lesson learnt but really hope they catch the bastards behind it all. I get a couple texts a week about this secret shopper crap

 
 
Edited by .., 2016-07-12 17:11:57

how about instead of blaming the bank, or the teller, or even the family...you put the blame where it should be...with the scammers.

I think what's really disturbing in this whole thing is the freedom these scammers have to operate. I get these text messages about secret shoppers on my Rogers phone on a regular basis. You would think with all the billions of dollars generated yearly by the cell phone companies and email services that they could invest in some public service awareness initiatives to warn the public of these scams that are being spread through cell/email services they provide.

I got a large cheque from the credit union on Rosser walked across the street to the Scotia deposited in my savings account and they held that cheque till it cleared, if they dont trust the bank across the street why would they trust one from out of the country when they know these scams are running rampant.

The real bad guys are the scum who try to fool people every day. We have had scammers try to weasel money out of us and the grandparents and while we have never fallen for any of them, I can see how some do. I wonder how many get caught? It shouldn't be that hard to trace where the money goes... I wouldn't protest some of my tax money going to a squad tracking these criminals down.  
FWIW, I don't think it is really the banks fault but hope they help these victims out.