Discussions

The "slow down" part is also a relative term. What speed did he "slow down" from (I would assume more than 50 km/h), and how much did he "slow down". For all we know, he could have slowed down from 70 km/h to 50 km/h.

It isnt the car hitting the front of the bus that caused it to veer it is the car hitting the front of the buses front wheel . When the wheel is impacted it turns and the bus has no choice but to follow the direction of the wheels . A very small car can impact the front wheel of a semi and the whole truck including the trailer will veer off the road. There are some youtube vids that show this.

I'm not sure how anyone could be turning this incident around on the bus driver.I think it's pretty safe to say the delinquent that drove a stolen car through a red light and impacted a bus going through a green light is the person at fault here.

fargobob said "I'm not sure how anyone could be turning this incident around on the bus driver.I think it's pretty safe to say the delinquent that drove a stolen car through a red light and impacted a bus going through a green light is the person at fault here. "

blame the poor innocent kid... kids are not responsible for anything they do or say... get with the program... I think the 2K thinking is... no one is responsible for anything they do

this bus driver won't be getting fired. I can't image the uproar if the city fired him over this!  
I suppose then, all professional drivers should be fired if the are involved in accidents then? I do not understand why anyone would even think for one moment the driver should be relieved of his duties.

The bus driver panicked and overcorrected? If your profession is driving for a living, you should be trained a lot better to react to an unexpected situation imo. Is this not in the Professional Driving Course 101? Also, if I was a transit rider, I'd want to be sure that the driver of the bus I was on was confident and not the panicky type.  
 
If I panic while driving and end up hurting people or creating destruction, am I just free to go just because I panicked?  
 
The kid needs more than probation and imo, the bus driver needs more than stress leave.

driver didn't cause the accident, the kid who stole a the car and ran the red light did. The bus driver just happened to be going through the intersection at the time. And the bus driver wasn't charged with overreacting to avoid a car running the red light. That might be the opinion of the officer and Crown Attorney, but they weren't the ones driving the bus. The end result could of been more serious or fatal had the bus driver not reacted like he did.  
 
It's easy for us who weren't driving the bus to say what should of been done differently.

I can see a young person just learning how to drive panicking when an accident happens but if you are supposed to have care and control of a massive bus then you had better have steel knackers and that goes for female drivers too.  
 
Thank goodness our police officers don't 'panic' when they are in a situation and have to chase a suspect! I have the utmost confidence that the law know how to drive their vehicles!  
 
As for the Crown Attorney does anyone think that her observation was based on her opinion only? Traffic analysts didn't provide a report?

Johnbisonbear said "I can see a young person just learning how to drive panicking when an accident happens but if you are supposed to have care and control of a massive bus then you had better have steel knackers and that goes for female drivers too.     Thank goodness our police officers don't 'panic' when they are in a situation and have to chase a suspect! I have the utmost confidence that the law know how to drive their vehicles!     As for the Crown Attorney does anyone think that her observation was based on her opinion only? Traffic analysts didn't provide a report? "

I'm having a hard time trying to understand your logic.  
 
If a person has never been hit by another vehicle while in motion, how is that person supposed to know how to react ?  
 
I'm not a young person just learning to drive , I've got 20 years driving accident free, yet I couldn't begin to assume how I would react in this situation.  
 
I'm not sure what police officers chasing a suspect has to do with this situation but I've seen plenty of police dash cam videos online and can't say they've all reacted perfectly when some douche canoe rams them.

Johnbisonbear said "I can see a young person just learning how to drive panicking when an accident happens but if you are supposed to have care and control of a massive bus then you had better have steel knackers and that goes for female drivers too.     Thank goodness our police officers don't 'panic' when they are in a situation and have to chase a suspect! I have the utmost confidence that the law know how to drive their vehicles!     As for the Crown Attorney does anyone think that her observation was based on her opinion only? Traffic analysts didn't provide a report? "

Your logic is seriously flawed, severely. If you think that a city bus driver and a city cop have the same driver training programs then you should just stop talking.  
 
A cop does multiple driving courses to learn how to handle that SMALL police car/suv at high rates of speed. A city bus driver has his what class 2? Maybe class 1 license (not sure off the top of my head) and is trained in the size and maneuverability of the bus and not how to drive it like a police cruiser.  
 
Like another comment has said, the impact of the car on the front wheels on the bus dictate where the bus is going to be going, depending on the speed of the bus (likely 50km/h) the weight of the bus plus the impact pushing it to the west.... The driver likely didn't have enough space to stop the bus.  
 
I would be very excited to see you put into a simulator of this exact situation, because even thou you know the accident is coming I'd be willing to bet that you can't handle the bus the way the driver did.

Suckie said "    Johnbisonbear said "I can see a young person just learning how to drive panicking when an accident happens but if you are supposed to have care and control of a massive bus then you had better have steel knackers and that goes for female drivers too.     Thank goodness our police officers don't 'panic' when they are in a situation and have to chase a suspect! I have the utmost confidence that the law know how to drive their vehicles!     As for the Crown Attorney does anyone think that her observation was based on her opinion only? Traffic analysts didn't provide a report? " Your logic is seriously flawed, severely. If you think that a city bus driver and a city cop have the same driver training programs then you should just stop talking.     A cop does multiple driving courses to learn how to handle that SMALL police car/suv at high rates of speed. A city bus driver has his what class 2? Maybe class 1 license (not sure off the top of my head) and is trained in the size and maneuverability of the bus and not how to drive it like a police cruiser.     Like another comment has said, the impact of the car on the front wheels on the bus dictate where the bus is going to be going, depending on the speed of the bus (likely 50km/h) the weight of the bus plus the impact pushing it to the west.... The driver likely didn't have enough space to stop the bus.     I would be very excited to see you put into a simulator of this exact situation, because even thou you know the accident is coming I'd be willing to bet that you can't handle the bus the way the driver did. "

the bus into a building instead of hitting the car that ran the red and cause 1 to 2 million dollar damage? Thanks for the compliment  
 
Where did I say that cops and transit drivers go thru the same training? smh.  
 
If someone is in charge of a bus that weighs a few tons then they better damn well know some defensive driving! We don't need people that panic behind the wheel.

Here is a video of small car impacting the front wheel of a large truck and causing the truck to go wild. No need to run audio as it is some ridiculous music.  
 

hutchster said "    Johnbisonbear said "I can see a young person just learning how to drive panicking when an accident happens but if you are supposed to have care and control of a massive bus then you had better have steel knackers and that goes for female drivers too.     Thank goodness our police officers don't 'panic' when they are in a situation and have to chase a suspect! I have the utmost confidence that the law know how to drive their vehicles!     As for the Crown Attorney does anyone think that her observation was based on her opinion only? Traffic analysts didn't provide a report? " I'm having a hard time trying to understand your logic.     If a person has never been hit by another vehicle while in motion, how is that person supposed to know how to react ?     I'm not a young person just learning to drive , I've got 20 years driving accident free, yet I couldn't begin to assume how I would react in this situation.     I'm not sure what police officers chasing a suspect has to do with this situation but I've seen plenty of police dash cam videos online and can't say they've all reacted perfectly when some douche canoe rams them. "

How does anyone know how they will react when hit by a vehicle? How did I know that when I see part of a deer carcass in front of me driving 100 km that I needed to hang tight and absorb the hit? Instinct? I don't drive the highway so I my knowledge wasn't experience.  
 
I stand by my comment.

As a professional driver I cannot believe there are a couple of posters on this thread that are shredding the bus driver for how he reacted, absolutely unbelievable.  
 
I for one would like to know how they would have reacted in the same situation.  
 
I'd bet these people have never driven anything larger than the 1/2 truck that sits in their driveway.

Crown Attorney states and people, please, feel free to read it yourself. 'It looks like the bus actually drove into the Lincoln. The transit driver panicked and overcorrected his steering wheel driving the bus into the building'. Let's not confuse facts with the truth, lol  
 
Gee do you think the CA got this info from the police accident report?

Johnbisonbear said "Crown Attorney states and people, please, feel free to read it yourself. 'It looks like the bus actually drove into the Lincoln. The transit driver panicked and overcorrected his steering wheel driving the bus into the building'. Let's not confuse facts with the truth, lol     Gee do you think the CA got this info from the police accident report? "

Perhaps you could post a link to the article you mention as none of the ones linked so far mention that info as far as I can tell.  
 
So the CA/article states that the bus driver panicked and drove into the lincoln in the heat of the moment ?  
 
If true I still can't fault the bus driver, he had the right of way, the car speeding thru a red light is 100% at fault for causing this situation.  
 
As to your avoiding a deer carcass, that's great that you didn't panic and swerve, but that's no where near the same as having a car speed thru a red light at you.

You cant fire the driver he was not found at fault end of story. And those at fault can be sued, the kid is not worth your time. but the city is a big fat chicken waiting to be plucked firing the driver would be mistake.

hutchster said "    Johnbisonbear said "Crown Attorney states and people, please, feel free to read it yourself. 'It looks like the bus actually drove into the Lincoln. The transit driver panicked and overcorrected his steering wheel driving the bus into the building'. Let's not confuse facts with the truth, lol     Gee do you think the CA got this info from the police accident report? " Perhaps you could post a link to the article you mention as none of the ones linked so far mention that info as far as I can tell.     So the CA/article states that the bus driver panicked and drove into the lincoln in the heat of the moment ?     If true I still can't fault the bus driver, he had the right of way, the car speeding thru a red light is 100% at fault for causing this situation.     As to your avoiding a deer carcass, that's great that you didn't panic and swerve, but that's no where near the same as having a car speed thru a red light at you. "

https://www.brandonsun.com/local/boy-12-pleads-guilty-in-car-theft-bus-crash-460679753.html  
 
'"It looked like the bus actually ran into the Lincoln and that the bus driver panicked or over-corrected his (steering) wheel, which allowed him to go straight into the building," Tschetter said. "There were four people on the bus that had minor injuries which consisted of bruising and were taken to hospital, but were cleared with no major injuries."  
 
The bus driver told police the boy went through the intersection on a red light and hit the front passenger side of the bus, causing it to go into the building, Tschetter added.'  
 
Just exactly how did he over-correct his steering or panic? Would the end result be any different? Why was that even mentioned? At 10th and Princess, the traffic coming from the east is blocked by a building and the bus driver would of had only a fraction of a second to see and react to the car flying through red light and into the intersection.  
 
But why is there even talk of disciplinary or even firing the bus driver? He wasn't the one who went through a red light in a stolen car. It's not the bus driver who was charged and getting 18 months probation. Just be glad it was only damage to a building that can be repaired and a written off bus. There were no serious or fatal injuries.

Midway55 said "You cant fire the driver he was not found at fault end of story. And those at fault can be sued, the kid is not worth your time. but the city is a big fat chicken waiting to be plucked firing the driver would be mistake. "

The driver was disciplined. He was suspended. I won't/can't go into further details.

Trevor B said "    hutchster said "    Johnbisonbear said "Crown Attorney states and people, please, feel free to read it yourself. 'It looks like the bus actually drove into the Lincoln. The transit driver panicked and overcorrected his steering wheel driving the bus into the building'. Let's not confuse facts with the truth, lol     Gee do you think the CA got this info from the police accident report? " Perhaps you could post a link to the article you mention as none of the ones linked so far mention that info as far as I can tell.     So the CA/article states that the bus driver panicked and drove into the lincoln in the heat of the moment ?     If true I still can't fault the bus driver, he had the right of way, the car speeding thru a red light is 100% at fault for causing this situation.     As to your avoiding a deer carcass, that's great that you didn't panic and swerve, but that's no where near the same as having a car speed thru a red light at you. " https://www.brandonsun.com/local/boy-12-pleads-guilty-in-car-theft-bus-crash-460679753.html     '"It looked like the bus actually ran into the Lincoln and that the bus driver panicked or over-corrected his (steering) wheel, which allowed him to go straight into the building," Tschetter said. "There were four people on the bus that had minor injuries which consisted of bruising and were taken to hospital, but were cleared with no major injuries."     The bus driver told police the boy went through the intersection on a red light and hit the front passenger side of the bus, causing it to go into the building, Tschetter added.'     Just exactly how did he over-correct his steering or panic? Would the end result be any different? Why was that even mentioned? At 10th and Princess, the traffic coming from the east is blocked by a building and the bus driver would of had only a fraction of a second to see and react to the car flying through red light and into the intersection.     But why is there even talk of disciplinary or even firing the bus driver? He wasn't the one who went through a red light in a stolen car. It's not the bus driver who was charged and getting 18 months probation. Just be glad it was only damage to a building that can be repaired and a written off bus. There were no serious or fatal injuries. "

the link Trevor and the actual words from the CA.  
Sounds to me that the transit driver was pulling a porkie when he said it was the Lincoln that pushed the bus into the building, right?  
 
Despite you posting parts of the article Trevor you still cannot grasp the details.  
Please re-read what you posted

the bus driver being charged?

While I would say the kid who stole the car is at fault doe the accident, I do have a hard time thinking that the entire dollar value of damage should be On him. The bus drivers reaction caused the most damage. First, there was absolutely no break marks, none. So over correcting is one thing, heading straight for a building without touching the breaks is another. I also wonder how fast the bus was going. Not only did it first take out a sidewalk light, it then busted a cast iron column in two places. I was also there right after it happened and would be more inclined to say the bus hit the car.

Is this: If the kid hadn't run the red light the bus would not have veered off the road and hit the biilding. Beyond that-I blame no one but the kid.

Trevor B said "the bus driver being charged? "

maybe you do? As a fellow city employee you must have some idea thru workplace gossip...

Never_give_up said "While I would say the kid who stole the car is at fault doe the accident, I do have a hard time thinking that the entire dollar value of damage should be On him. The bus drivers reaction caused the most damage. First, there was absolutely no break marks, none. So over correcting is one thing, heading straight for a building without touching the breaks is another. I also wonder how fast the bus was going. Not only did it first take out a sidewalk light, it then busted a cast iron column in two places. I was also there right after it happened and would be more inclined to say the bus hit the car. "

the kid was 12, is not a licensed or insured driver, the vehicle was STOLEN, caused a collision and then written off.  
 
You would hope if this was your vehicle involved that MPI finds him at fault for all the damage he has caused and puts all the dollar value of damage on HIM! He committed a CRIME! Seriously give your head a shake.

Oryx said "    Never_give_up said "While I would say the kid who stole the car is at fault doe the accident, I do have a hard time thinking that the entire dollar value of damage should be On him. The bus drivers reaction caused the most damage. First, there was absolutely no break marks, none. So over correcting is one thing, heading straight for a building without touching the breaks is another. I also wonder how fast the bus was going. Not only did it first take out a sidewalk light, it then busted a cast iron column in two places. I was also there right after it happened and would be more inclined to say the bus hit the car. " the kid was 12, is not a licensed or insured driver, the vehicle was STOLEN, caused a collision and then written off.     You would hope if this was your vehicle involved that MPI finds him at fault for all the damage he has caused and puts all the dollar value of damage on HIM! He committed a CRIME! Seriously give your head a shake. "

reading facts as stated in a court house by the CA and provided thru the traffic analysts from BPS? wow  
 
Does that 12 year brat deserve the full extent of the law, yup, bump him up and charge him as a adult, imo. But that won't happen.  
 
I think more details will be coming out regarding the bus driver...

Johnbisonbear said "    Trevor B said "the bus driver being charged? " maybe you do? As a fellow city employee you must have some idea thru workplace gossip... "

but you seemed to think he did to warrant something extreme like being fired from his job. Without knowing exactly how the bus driver reacted, the Crown Attorney comment about panicking or over-steering is pretty vague. No one here witnessed the accident when it happened, only saw the aftermath.  
 
And yes the city''s Risk Management would of looked at the accident like they do with everything else where damage or injury happens. And those findings will stay internal!!  
 
Edited by Trevor B, 2017-12-03 11:42:34

Johnbisonbear said "    Oryx said "    Never_give_up said "While I would say the kid who stole the car is at fault doe the accident, I do have a hard time thinking that the entire dollar value of damage should be On him. The bus drivers reaction caused the most damage. First, there was absolutely no break marks, none. So over correcting is one thing, heading straight for a building without touching the breaks is another. I also wonder how fast the bus was going. Not only did it first take out a sidewalk light, it then busted a cast iron column in two places. I was also there right after it happened and would be more inclined to say the bus hit the car. " the kid was 12, is not a licensed or insured driver, the vehicle was STOLEN, caused a collision and then written off.     You would hope if this was your vehicle involved that MPI finds him at fault for all the damage he has caused and puts all the dollar value of damage on HIM! He committed a CRIME! Seriously give your head a shake. " reading facts as stated in a court house by the CA and provided thru the traffic analysts from BPS? wow     Does that 12 year brat deserve the full extent of the law, yup, bump him up and charge him as a adult, imo. But that won't happen.     I think more details will be coming out regarding the bus driver... "

the CA say anything more than panicked or oversteered? Can you provide the link? Can you provide anymore details than what's said in the Brandon Sun?  
 
You seem pretty intent hanging the bus driver.

You also need to re-read the CA's statement yourself.  
 
'"It looked like the bus actually ran into the Lincoln and that the bus driver panicked or over-corrected his (steering) wheel, which allowed him to go straight into the building," Tschetter said. "There were four people on the bus that had minor injuries which consisted of bruising and were taken to hospital, but were cleared with no major injuries."'  
 
It looked like? Which is it, panicked or over-corrected? This is the only information that's been released, and you figure that's enough for the bus driver to loose his job? The ball is in your court to provide further details than what is currently available to show that the bus driver should be fired or have other punishment levied.

Trevor B said "You also need to re-read the CA's statement yourself.     '"It looked like the bus actually ran into the Lincoln and that the bus driver panicked or over-corrected his (steering) wheel, which allowed him to go straight into the building," Tschetter said. "There were four people on the bus that had minor injuries which consisted of bruising and were taken to hospital, but were cleared with no major injuries."'     It looked like? Which is it, panicked or over-corrected? This is the only information that's been released, and you figure that's enough for the bus driver to loose his job? The ball is in your court to provide further details than what is currently available to show that the bus driver should be fired or have other punishment levied. "

Trevor, where do you think the CA is getting her info from? Do ya think from the police? Was that intersection not closed to traffic for hours? Did the traffic analyst from the police department not investigate?  
Correct me if I'm wrong but when there is a serious accident involving vehicles the traffic department of BPS thoroughly investigates right?  
Do you think that CA is speculating? It wasn't Kangaroo Court!  
Maybe all you doubters need to rally and go down and talk to the CA if you think she doesn't know how to do her job?