Discussions

Jaim said "You do realize that teachers don’t actually get paid during the summer, right? It’s not like they have 10 weeks of paid vacation... "

And to add to this, for those who think it's a great idea and would "save money" to have teacher PD days throughout the summer, you would then have to pay them to attend, right? So it's not really a money saver, in my opinion.

But so some of you know... Parent Teacher day is on Friday Nov.16 (yes, another day off for kids)  
I have 26 students in my class so one day is not enough time to meet with all the parents. I will be doing conferences all week instead. During my lunch hours, staying until 6:00 pm two days, doing some at 7:45 a.m. etc. I'm not complaining- but please know that many teachers are working hard for the children. I love my students. PD days, no PD days...summer holidays or not...I work hard just like you do.

Not going to talk about PD days, just going to say I like your comment and know that many teachers feel you do, and in the end that's a great thing.

Farmers Feed the World said "I've messaged adam to close this discussion as it has taken a turn I didn't intend.     This was never intended to bash teachers and any teachers who feel this was a shot at them I profoundly apologize. "

Hey Farmer, I think most of this thread has been fairly respectful of teachers. The biggest dig seems to be a result of the misunderstanding about summer and whether they're paid or not. Any time there's a chance to clear that up, all the better so more people understand it. So as far as your original intent - is there a 'better' way to manage PDs, that's been helpful to the discussion.  
 
One more thing to consider: if I understand correctly, many of the PD sessions are organized and led by the more experienced teachers. So putting more PD at the very beginning of the year would inevitably mean that those leaders put in some hours 'off the clock' during summer, leading up to the first week of the new school year. So again, we have the dilemma of expecting them to work when they're not being paid for it. I know that doesn't help answer your question, but just a bit more context to understand why the PDs are sprinkled through the year. At least that's my interpretation. Maybe a teacher can weigh in?

aBUFAmember said "    Farmers Feed the World said "I've messaged adam to close this discussion as it has taken a turn I didn't intend.     This was never intended to bash teachers and any teachers who feel this was a shot at them I profoundly apologize. " Hey Farmer, I think most of this thread has been fairly respectful of teachers. The biggest dig seems to be a result of the misunderstanding about summer and whether they're paid or not. Any time there's a chance to clear that up, all the better so more people understand it. So as far as your original intent - is there a 'better' way to manage PDs, that's been helpful to the discussion.     One more thing to consider: if I understand correctly, many of the PD sessions are organized and led by the more experienced teachers. So putting more PD at the very beginning of the year would inevitably mean that those leaders put in some hours 'off the clock' during summer, leading up to the first week of the new school year. So again, we have the dilemma of expecting them to work when they're not being paid for it. I know that doesn't help answer your question, but just a bit more context to understand why the PDs are sprinkled through the year. At least that's my interpretation. Maybe a teacher can weigh in? "

The thing is if people do put examples or information on here and it doesn't jive with others opinions these threads go south pretty quick. One is blind to think there is no possible way to improve our education system. If one puts out ideas they get slammed saying run for trustee or whatever. The idea of putting out PD days in a different order outside the 195 teaching days seems logical to not disrupt student learning. Excuses of students need a break and all this come out fighting the thought instead of potentially making it work. It is argued that teachers don't get paid for the two months. I pull out section 10 of the salary part of the BTA Collective Agreement saying teacher get paid 1/12 every month. In July and Aug payment is on the last business day of the month yet somehow teachers are not paid for those months. My family in the education system got paid during the summer so I can't figure out why other teachers are not. It was brought forth that PD days are valuable to teaching our youth yet I try and confirm that the PD day classes i:ncluded things like Scrapbooking and question the value in that to students and I get told to ask those questions to the Teachers Association. I will be emailing our trustees with the question, not to worry for some. Our education system does have a lot of areas to improve, if one says to see what goes on I have more than enough school time in dealing with my own kid but to sit from an outside perspective and question a lot of things that do go on within the school walls. I asked the board about "fluff" classes last year at a meeting and obviously ruffled some feathers. Classes students took i:ncluded doing projects like Minecraft, cup stacking, etc to try and engage them more within the school. Success was about 64%. I look forward to seeing the value in classes like that. Seems like an easy credit course to pad credits to graduate.  
 
But like any government department when questioned on the efficiency of the way things are done people get defensive of the people. Can health care be improved? Oh the nurses work so hard....Can the education system be improved.....Oh the teachers work so hard.  
 
Our education system lacks when compared with the rest of the world but yet media says we are above average provincially.

As far as teachers being paid in the summer I think you answered your question in the quote above. It states teachers receive compensation in July and August for money earned in the previous school year.  
Sorry I can’t highlight the sentence exactly but if you read what you copied and pasted it means teachers are not compensated for any time in summer which would mean an increase in salaries if they were expected to attend PD days then.

fuzzybunny said "As far as teachers being paid in the summer I think you answered your question in the quote above. It states teachers receive compensation in July and August for money earned in the previous school year.   Sorry I can’t highlight the sentence exactly but if you read what you copied and pasted it means teachers are not compensated for any time in summer which would mean an increase in salaries if they were expected to attend PD days then. "

Ok so they get paid from salary from the previous year for July and Aug but what you are saying is they don't? If you are paid 1/12 of a salary each month that means over 12 months you would be paid your full salary. It says that directly in the collective agreement. They get paid those two months on the last business day. So the months of July and Aug for 2019 will be paid out of their 2018 year's salary. July and Aug of 2018 was paid out of the yearly salary starting Aug 2017.  
 
So no....they would not need an increase in salary if their pay is spread out over 12 months.

Teachers do not get paid for any day that schools are closed except for the 10 days allotted as Admin/PD days. Their salary for +/- 195 days work is paid in 10, 12, 24, or 26 installments, depending on the Division. A teacher cannot be paid outside of their contract, that is, for example, attending an inservice over the summer.

Term teachers who have a contract expire at the end of a school year are no longer employed. They are eligible for unemployment benefits.  
 
When would term teachers be expected to go to PD? What if they were hired in the first month of the school year, replaced a teacher going on mat leave in October, sick leave in December or retired in March etc.  
 
Teachers used to receive their salaries 1/10 until they drafted agreements with their employer to receive them over 1/12 months. Therefore teachers defer a portion of their salary every month they are working to pay for the months when they are not.  
 
If you're going to suggest that teachers work longer school years then you should expect to pay them.

I will waste 5 minutes of my life to try to explain a few things to you: teaching students nowadays requires teachers to try and connect with their students in whatever methods possible because not all kids are arriving in our classrooms ready to learn in the “traditional” ways you may think they should be.  
 
So kids who are constantly playing video games at home from the age of 3 may understand shapes and spatial geometry by the teacher relating it to Minecraft. It’s an example of how we can creatively meet math outcomes. Kids who are coming to school with major anxiety or depression may find they are able build their self-confidence by engaging in some scrapbooking or the students on student council are creating a school scrapbook to celebrate their school pride. Scrapbooking can meet outcomes in the visual arts curriculum.  
 
Teachers are suffering burnout as they try to desperately connect with the challenging and diverse needs of our students and do it without the support of our community because of the negative attitudes that people like you constantly spew.  
 
The original suggestion that having PD outside of the school year would save money for the division makes no sense. The division would not save money on substitutes because we don’t hire subs on PD days. It actually saves the division money because that’s 10 days (5 PD/5 admin) that there are no buses running and usually no EAs being paid.

OP has requested that the thread be brought to a close and so will respect that request.