Discussions

Does the bus driver support the suicide that many teen homosexuals end up believing that this is the only option because society will not accept them for who they are? Is that really the better option? By not supporting equality for everyone, that is what many teens face every day. Accepting of all people is the Canadian way.  
 
Also, driving a bus with advertisement does not mean the driver supports whatever is being advertised. If I was a vegetarian, could I refuse to drive a bus with meat advertisements? If I was short, could I refuse to drive a bus with "Big and Tall" advertisements? This complaint about not wanting to show support for the pride organizations is just as ridiculous. The driver is not required to wear a rainbow coloured shirt and hat as well.  
 
(I drove many Calgary Transit buses a few decades ago.)

Johnbisonbear said "no one has any freedom anymore!!!     Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....     not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right.....       "

[i]no one has any freedom anymore!!![/i]  
 
You mean the freedom to discriminate without being called on it?  
 
[i]Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....[/i]  
 
I doubt that. You have any evidence of this double standard?  
 
[i] not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right..... [/i]  
 
He can. He can find another line of work that doesn't conflict with his bronze age views of morality.

Forget for a minute what the bus is advertising and look at the bigger picture. Transit companies often use their vehicles as an advertising tool, and anyone can pay for it as as long as it's lawful. Do a quick google search on bus advertising and you will see lots of pictures that someone may take offence to. The McDonalds one may offend health advocates or vegans, the Jagermeister may offend addicts or those religious orders that don't imbibe, there is an atheist one that says "there probably is no god", and a Christian one that says "there is a god". Big deal, freedom of expression. If Maple Leaf want to wrap a bus in pork pictures, they should be allowed EVEN IF the driver is muslim. In this case, Calgary Pride is simply advertising their event. Nothing offensive there.  
 
This advertising is a way for companies to make additional revenue, or offset fees(taxes) that would otherwise be transferred to the consumer. Why should an individual driver be allowed to dictate company rules for revenue generation based on their own beliefs.  
 
If this driver is so offended, then he should move on to a profession where he wont be in CONSTANT contact with advertising.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by on-second-thought, 2015-08-29 10:23:00

Torque said "    Johnbisonbear said "no one has any freedom anymore!!!     Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....     not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right.....       " [i]no one has any freedom anymore!!![/i]     You mean the freedom to discriminate without being called on it?     [i]Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....[/i]     I doubt that. You have any evidence of this double standard?     [i] not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right..... [/i]     He can. He can find another line of work that doesn't conflict with his bronze age views of morality. "

that if this was another religion there would be concessions made!! Look at RCMP head dress for turbans. Construction workers do not have to wear hard hats properly if it interferes with their religious head dress. We make concessions for religious attire in a professional setting if there is a dress code (i.e. Muslim head dress on women and dresses). We have also heard of allowing certain religious groups to stop work to take part in daily prayer rituals, not stand in "Oh Canada" and many others.  
Katwalk - Like usual you take everything to a whole new level! Just because someone doesn't believe that being gay is morally right does not mean they condone or encourage suicide! Some times you say the most amazing things, then other times you need to give your head a shake. If we start taking more and more other religious laws into play and start letting their laws about the treating of women certain ways (rape & beatings as punishment) are you going to be cool with that too? What if they put that on the buses?  
As for the person that is putting the KKK into Christianity...we are all human and when we introduce human factors into ANYTHING we distort things to how we want it to suit OUR needs. Just like Katwalk saying this bus driver supports suicide. If we were to take a poll, most people would consider themselves religious and most people link that to "Christianity". Most people believe just because you believe there is a God or supreme being you are "Christian".  
The unfortunate thing about this story is one more time every one believes as a Christian you either accept the Gay lifestyle in to your moral believes with open arms or you are a suicide promoting raciest homophobic bigoted gay beater. This is not the case and makes you (if you believe that) just as bad as the people that are so rudely outspoken about it. There are LOTS of us, that are torn between whether this lifestyle is right or wrong. We look at it Biblically and it is wrong (no matter how you want distort the Bible). But at the end of the day if we believe this lifestyle is a sin, so is speeding, so is rolling through that stop sign to get to church quicker cause you are running late and so is looking at someone else's sin and thinking it is worse than yours without dealing with yours. God looks at ALL sin the same and at the end of the day is for Him to deal with. I have lots of Gay friends and love them the same as my straight friends. They know my confused stance on it, because this is not a simple right or wrong thing and I don't believe it ever will be. So like I said in my previous post, IF we make concessions for 1 religious belief we have to make it for all.

Torque said "    Johnbisonbear said "no one has any freedom anymore!!!     Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....     not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right.....       " [i]no one has any freedom anymore!!![/i]     You mean the freedom to discriminate without being called on it?     [i]Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....[/i]     I doubt that. You have any evidence of this double standard?     [i] not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right..... [/i]     He can. He can find another line of work that doesn't conflict with his bronze age views of morality. "

If you go back the infamous gay cake wedding spiel, there was a Muslim bakery who was targeted by a gay couple who wanted a wedding cake. The bakery refused to make the cake. There was no consequences are real main stream media backlash on it.  
 
Keep this news story in handy for any bus drivers who refuse to drive a bus because the bus has a Merry Christmas, or some pro-life banner on it.  

BigDaddy 2 said "    Torque said "    Johnbisonbear said "no one has any freedom anymore!!!     Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....     not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right.....       " [i]no one has any freedom anymore!!![/i]     You mean the freedom to discriminate without being called on it?     [i]Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....[/i]     I doubt that. You have any evidence of this double standard?     [i] not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right..... [/i]     He can. He can find another line of work that doesn't conflict with his bronze age views of morality. " that if this was another religion there would be concessions made!! Look at RCMP head dress for turbans. Construction workers do not have to wear hard hats properly if it interferes with their religious head dress. We make concessions for religious attire in a professional setting if there is a dress code (i.e. Muslim head dress on women and dresses). We have also heard of allowing certain religious groups to stop work to take part in daily prayer rituals, not stand in "Oh Canada" and many others.   Katwalk - Like usual you take everything to a whole new level! Just because someone doesn't believe that being gay is morally right does not mean they condone or encourage suicide! Some times you say the most amazing things, then other times you need to give your head a shake. If we start taking more and more other religious laws into play and start letting their laws about the treating of women certain ways (rape & beatings as punishment) are you going to be cool with that too? What if they put that on the buses?   As for the person that is putting the KKK into Christianity...we are all human and when we introduce human factors into ANYTHING we distort things to how we want it to suit OUR needs. Just like Katwalk saying this bus driver supports suicide. If we were to take a poll, most people would consider themselves religious and most people link that to "Christianity". Most people believe just because you believe there is a God or supreme being you are "Christian".   The unfortunate thing about this story is one more time every one believes as a Christian you either accept the Gay lifestyle in to your moral believes with open arms or you are a suicide promoting raciest homophobic bigoted gay beater. This is not the case and makes you (if you believe that) just as bad as the people that are so rudely outspoken about it. There are LOTS of us, that are torn between whether this lifestyle is right or wrong. We look at it Biblically and it is wrong (no matter how you want distort the Bible). But at the end of the day if we believe this lifestyle is a sin, so is speeding, so is rolling through that stop sign to get to church quicker cause you are running late and so is looking at someone else's sin and thinking it is worse than yours without dealing with yours. God looks at ALL sin the same and at the end of the day is for Him to deal with. I have lots of Gay friends and love them the same as my straight friends. They know my confused stance on it, because this is not a simple right or wrong thing and I don't believe it ever will be. So like I said in my previous post, IF we make concessions for 1 religious belief we have to make it for all. "

First off, thank you for jumping to situations I didn't even comment on in my post. Many of those situations I'd agree that religion should not superscede safety and established dress codes that serve a purpose.  
 
I was asking for evidence of a muslim bus driver who was treated differently than this bus driver for the same reason.  
 
As for the rest of your post.  
 
Do you understand what homosexuality is?  
 
I ask you this because you keep repeating that it's a "lifestyle". Implying that it's somehow a conscious choice that gay people made to find people of the same sex attractive. This is a falsehood that's often propagated by religious groups.  
 
You claim to have lots of gay friends and yet somehow this fact has eluded you. Interesting.  
 
Gay people are born gay, they didn't choose it. Which means that looking down on gay people as immoral or sinners because they were born with a certain biological disposition is wrong. The only reason religious people keep trying to paint homosexuality as a choice is because it allows them to sidestep being called a bigot since they can just claim they're opposed to a "lifestyle" as opposed to a human being with human rights.  
 
Do you understand?  
 
It's not about "accept the Gay lifestyle in to your moral believes with open arms", it's about acknowledging that homosexuality occurs naturally and people are born gay and thus it is their basic human right to be what they are, they didn't "make a mistake" or "sin". Nobody's trying to make you like gay sex, nobody's trying to make you be gay.  
 
Being opposed to homosexuality is not a stance on a right or wrong behavior, its a stance on the biology of a particular human being, just like gender, skin color, hair color etc..  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Torque, 2015-08-29 11:46:43

think a 'gay' gene has ever been found to show that people are born 'gay'. It's a lifestyle choice.

First off thanks for your explanation into something that I already understand. It is people like you that make ebrandon such an educational experience!! As for bringing other topics you didn't mention in your posts, I also noted other peoples comments in them, I just didn't start a whole new post for each one (as I may not be smart enough to understand what makes homosexuality homosexuality, I am smart enough to read that you didn't mention suicide, your name is not Katwalk and you didn't say anything about KKK). I will make sure I never put a response to you with anyone else!!  
As for the point I brought up about your post you put "I doubt that. You have any evidence of this double standard?" and I pointed out just a few of MANY concessions made for religious beliefs that would make it a double standard.  
As for the whole "Lifestyle" comment, I am sure you would not agree with some of my Lifestyle choices, just like some of my gay friends don't choose to agree with my Lifestyle of being straight. I am sorry you think that by saying Lifestyle you think I am hiding behind my bigoted views. I chose a word, that is all! I look at my being straight as being a "lifestyle" sorry if that offends you or is the wrong wording for your liking. I'm not going to argue with you about wording or anything else, cause at the end of the day I know there are many religious concessions made and I don't believe any one religion should have any concessions made for them. Do your job or leave your job, that's all there is. I have my beliefs just like you and neither one of us are going to argue the other out of them.

Trevor B said "think a 'gay' gene has ever been found to show that people are born 'gay'. It's a lifestyle choice. "

Wrong.  
 
You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?  
 
You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it?  
 
Homosexuality exists in nature outside of the human species. It has been discovered to serve a role in species with higher social structures.  
 
There's a variety of biological factors that lead to homosexuality, and none of them are choices.

Please, tell me about that moment in your life when you decided to be straight?

me the same thing. Everyone makes thier own life choices. Until some actual biological proof that you are born homosexual, I guess it could be eitherway.

BigDaddy 2 said "First off thanks for your explanation into something that I already understand. It is people like you that make ebrandon such an educational experience!! As for bringing other topics you didn't mention in your posts, I also noted other peoples comments in them, I just didn't start a whole new post for each one (as I may not be smart enough to understand what makes homosexuality homosexuality, I am smart enough to read that you didn't mention suicide, your name is not Katwalk and you didn't say anything about KKK). I will make sure I never put a response to you with anyone else!!   As for the point I brought up about your post you put "I doubt that. You have any evidence of this double standard?" and I pointed out just a few of MANY concessions made for religious beliefs that would make it a double standard.   As for the whole "Lifestyle" comment, I am sure you would not agree with some of my Lifestyle choices, just like some of my gay friends don't choose to agree with my Lifestyle of being straight. I am sorry you think that by saying Lifestyle you think I am hiding behind my bigoted views. I chose a word, that is all! I look at my being straight as being a "lifestyle" sorry if that offends you or is the wrong wording for your liking. I'm not going to argue with you about wording or anything else, cause at the end of the day I know there are many religious concessions made and I don't believe any one religion should have any concessions made for them. Do your job or leave your job, that's all there is. I have my beliefs just like you and neither one of us are going to argue the other out of them. "

Wow.. just.. wow.  
 
You jumbled together a wall of text as a reply to several people, and then you're upset that I responded to things you didn't address to me? Poor you.  
 
Let me ask you.  
 
Is being black a lifestyle? Is having blue eyes a lifestyle? Is being a male a lifestyle?  
 
You use the word lifestyle not like anyone else uses it and then get all defensive when someone misinterprets what you're saying? How about some definitions and clarity instead of getting all butthurt.  
 
You can't have a normal discussion without acting like an angsty teenager?  
 
 

Vegitarians born with that gene or is it a choice? Being black, having blue eyes, etc. is hereditary and is biological.  
 
There are many different lifestyles that people have. If I decided I wanted to be homosexual, transgendered, I can. It's a personal choice, like being a vegitarian.

i believe its a product of both experiences and genetics that make us chose the lifestyle we chose  
 
also, finding out that the rainbow is a paid add that is not subsidized by tax payers imo does change things but i still think it would be easy enough for the company to accommodate their driver which they basically said they would do, really end of issue, people have the right to believe anything they want, the lgbt community and the Christians and any other group, they just cant infringe on each others rights and neither is if the company accommodates the driver  

Trevor B said "Vegitarians born with that gene or is it a choice? Being black, having blue eyes, etc. is hereditary and is biological.     There are many different lifestyles that people have. If I decided I wanted to be homosexual, transgendered, I can. It's a personal choice, like being a vegitarian. "

You are clearly a lost cause and nobody is going to be able to explain just how wrong you are.  
 
Comparing food choice to sexual orientation is not even close to being relevant.

Trevor B said "Vegitarians born with that gene or is it a choice? Being black, having blue eyes, etc. is hereditary and is biological.     There are many different lifestyles that people have. If I decided I wanted to be homosexual, transgendered, I can. It's a personal choice, like being a vegitarian. "

Here are a couple abstracts from a peer reviewed medical journal.  
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8332896  
 
 
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7581447  
 
Almost all the current scientific literature on the subject agrees that sexual preference is ingrained before you even reach puberty. There is no conscious decision being made.  
 
Vegetarians on the other hand do make a conscious decision to eat vegetables. There's no "attraction" to vegetables over meat. It's a value judgement based on nutrition or value of animal life.  
 
It's a weak analogy and you know it.  
 
Every vegetarian can point to a time when they consciously decided to not eat meat, again, when did you consciously decide to find females sexually attractive?  
 
I have to say I'm surprised you even attempted that comparison.

I think I'll be politically right and not say anything for fear of offending someone, which is the point of which we have arrived at in many issues  
 
Big Daddy 2, I understand the point you are trying to make and it seems to come down to the word exemption, we seem to be all concerned about people's rights but there seem to be exemptions or exceptions to this idea, sort of sad in a way.

Torque said "    Trevor B said "think a 'gay' gene has ever been found to show that people are born 'gay'. It's a lifestyle choice. " Wrong.     You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?     You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it?     Homosexuality exists in nature outside of the human species. It has been discovered to serve a role in species with higher social structures.     There's a variety of biological factors that lead to homosexuality, and none of them are choices. "

im curious why you think Trevor would mis treat a lgbt person just because he believes its a life style choice? Believing something dosent make you a jerk  
 
not saying they havent been mis treated over the years but society has changed and most people accept their choices, even if we have varying views, doesnt mean everyone is mean spirited, like the driver said we dont necessarily hate because we disagree or dont support something, trevor isnt even saying he doesnt support lgbt's hes saying its a lifestyle choice

a study over 20 years old that shows there might be a genitic link is all you can find? Do have anything that shows it's 100% or even remotely close. Also can you then explain lesbians, you know female and female relationships? Do you have any studies that show they 'might' have a genetic issue?

traveller said "    Torque said "    Trevor B said "think a 'gay' gene has ever been found to show that people are born 'gay'. It's a lifestyle choice. " Wrong.     You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?     You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it?     Homosexuality exists in nature outside of the human species. It has been discovered to serve a role in species with higher social structures.     There's a variety of biological factors that lead to homosexuality, and none of them are choices. " im curious why you think Trevor would mis treat a lgbt person just because he believes its a life style choice? Believing something dosent make you a jerk     not saying they havent been mis treated over the years but society has changed and most people accept their choices, even if we have varying views, doesnt mean everyone is mean spirited, like the driver said we dont necessarily hate because we disagree or dont support something, trevor isnt even saying he doesnt support lgbt's hes saying its a lifestyle choice "

I don't think I've said that I think Trevor would do anything of the sort. In fact I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't. If I've said or implied something different, I apologize.  
 
And believing something absolutely can make you a jerk, depending on what that belief is.  
 
The point I made earlier with respect to many religious groups pushing the "choice" school of thought was to outline why this argument is even on their radar, and it's because it messes with their biblically based view of homosexuality, and if you're born gay then it raises some uncomfortable questions for them. That's all I alluded to.  
 
My disagreement with Trevor and others in this thread is about the origin of homosexuality. My (and most biologists and behavioralists studying homosexuality) contention is that homosexuality is both genetically and environmentally determined if not at birth, then at an extremely early age, and it is certainly not a conscious choice.  
 
This is evidenced by anatomical differences between gay and straight individuals as well as genetic differences.We can't say for sure yet, but the research does not seem to support the "lifestyle choice" argument.  
 
Edited by Torque, 2015-08-29 13:37:38

Trevor B said "a study over 20 years old that shows there might be a genitic link is all you can find? Do have anything that shows it's 100% or even remotely close. Also can you then explain lesbians, you know female and female relationships? Do you have any studies that show they 'might' have a genetic issue? "

Im not going to look for studies but i have read some that say there are more bi women then men because society accepts them, also bi women are increasing because it has become more normal, it could be argued that they are just more willing to be upfront then before but it makes me think that their is [i]some [/i]socialization influence

anatomical differences? Do lesbians also have anatomical differences?

Trevor B said "a study over 20 years old that shows there might be a genitic link is all you can find? Do have anything that shows it's 100% or even remotely close. Also can you then explain lesbians, you know female and female relationships? Do you have any studies that show they 'might' have a genetic issue? "

I'm just following the evidence. You can't prove anything for 100%. I give you a couple peer reviewed articles and all you can level against them is "oh they're old"  
 
so? Gravitational theory is old too. Whats your point?  
 
And what do you have to offer? Just baseless assertions that "its a lifestyle choice!!" as if that were evidently true.  
 
Come on Trevor.

what's your point as well. Your saying what your saying like it's true as well.  
 
But, also read up on the differences between studies and theories.

Torque said "    traveller said "    Torque said "    Trevor B said "think a 'gay' gene has ever been found to show that people are born 'gay'. It's a lifestyle choice. " Wrong.     You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?     You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it?     Homosexuality exists in nature outside of the human species. It has been discovered to serve a role in species with higher social structures.     There's a variety of biological factors that lead to homosexuality, and none of them are choices. " im curious why you think Trevor would mis treat a lgbt person just because he believes its a life style choice? Believing something dosent make you a jerk     not saying they havent been mis treated over the years but society has changed and most people accept their choices, even if we have varying views, doesnt mean everyone is mean spirited, like the driver said we dont necessarily hate because we disagree or dont support something, trevor isnt even saying he doesnt support lgbt's hes saying its a lifestyle choice " I don't think I've said that I think Trevor would do anything of the sort. In fact I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't. If I've said or implied something different, I apologize.     And believing something absolutely can make you a jerk, depending on what that belief is.     The point I made earlier with respect to many religious groups pushing the "choice" school of thought was to outline why this argument is even on their radar, and it's because it messes with their biblically based view of homosexuality, and if you're born gay then it raises some uncomfortable questions for them. That's all I alluded to.     My disagreement with Trevor and others in this thread is about the origin of homosexuality. My (and most biologists and behavioralists studying homosexuality) contention is that homosexuality is both genetically and environmentally determined if not at birth, then at an extremely early age, and it is certainly not a conscious choice.     This is evidenced by anatomical differences between gay and straight individuals as well as genetic differences.We can't say for sure yet, but the research does not seem to support the "lifestyle choice" argument.     Edited by Torque, 2015-08-29 13:37:38"

[i]Wrong.  
 
You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?  
 
You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it? [/i]  
 
the quote above is what made me think you are saying or alluding that trevor would do these things simply because he said he believed it was a lifestyle, you apologized tho so fine but that is what made me respond  
 
however i still disagree that a belief makes you a jerk, I dont believe i need to wear a burka but many believe i should, that doesn't make them jerks, it makes them different and we should accept that, with them and lgbt or anyone, what makes us a jerk is how we respond to our beliefs, trying to force them on people or twist wording and lump them into a group with bad behavior is being a jerk about beliefs ...see the difference?

Trevor B said "anatomical differences? Do lesbians also have anatomical differences? "

The Hypothalamus region of the brain, which is directly related to sexual behavior in males has been found to differ in size between gay and straight males.  
 
This was discovered by neuroscientist Dr. Simon LeVay.  
 
What's also apparent, is that differing hormone levels during puberty have an impact on sexual behavior later in life.  
 
In studies, animals subjected to abnormal hormone levels for example, a female rat exposed to larger levels of testosterone or estrogen and vise versa for males, results in a-typical sexual behavior later on in life. A-typical meaning that often the females in my example would interact more with same-sex partners than opposite-sex.  
 
As I've said, we can't know for sure, but all of these things point to a developmental origin for homosexuality, not one of conscious choice.

traveller said "    Torque said "    traveller said "    Torque said "    Trevor B said "think a 'gay' gene has ever been found to show that people are born 'gay'. It's a lifestyle choice. " Wrong.     You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?     You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it?     Homosexuality exists in nature outside of the human species. It has been discovered to serve a role in species with higher social structures.     There's a variety of biological factors that lead to homosexuality, and none of them are choices. " im curious why you think Trevor would mis treat a lgbt person just because he believes its a life style choice? Believing something dosent make you a jerk     not saying they havent been mis treated over the years but society has changed and most people accept their choices, even if we have varying views, doesnt mean everyone is mean spirited, like the driver said we dont necessarily hate because we disagree or dont support something, trevor isnt even saying he doesnt support lgbt's hes saying its a lifestyle choice " I don't think I've said that I think Trevor would do anything of the sort. In fact I'm pretty confident that he wouldn't. If I've said or implied something different, I apologize.     And believing something absolutely can make you a jerk, depending on what that belief is.     The point I made earlier with respect to many religious groups pushing the "choice" school of thought was to outline why this argument is even on their radar, and it's because it messes with their biblically based view of homosexuality, and if you're born gay then it raises some uncomfortable questions for them. That's all I alluded to.     My disagreement with Trevor and others in this thread is about the origin of homosexuality. My (and most biologists and behavioralists studying homosexuality) contention is that homosexuality is both genetically and environmentally determined if not at birth, then at an extremely early age, and it is certainly not a conscious choice.     This is evidenced by anatomical differences between gay and straight individuals as well as genetic differences.We can't say for sure yet, but the research does not seem to support the "lifestyle choice" argument.     Edited by Torque, 2015-08-29 13:37:38" [i]Wrong.     You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?     You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it? [/i]     the quote above is what made me think you are saying or alluding that trevor would do these things simply because he said he believed it was a lifestyle, you apologized tho so fine but that is what made me respond     however i still disagree that a belief makes you a jerk, I dont believe i need to wear a burka but many believe i should, that doesn't make them jerks, it makes them different and we should accept that, with them and lgbt or anyone, what makes us a jerk is how we respond to our beliefs, trying to force them on people or twist wording and lump them into a group with bad behavior is being a jerk about beliefs ...see the difference? "

What?  
 
Those were rhetorical questions. Obviously in my opinion homosexuality (the attraction to people of the same sex) isn't a lifestyle, so I'm sure Trevor doesn't hate gay people.  
 
On your point about beliefs. Why did you pick something as benign as wearing a burka? Why didn't you pick something like, molesting young children?  
 
Would believing molesting children make you a "jerk"? Yes, It would make you a lot worse things than that, even if you didn't ever act on it to label you as a molester.  
 
Edited by Torque, 2015-08-29 13:59:21

Torque said "    Trevor B said "think a 'gay' gene has ever been found to show that people are born 'gay'. It's a lifestyle choice. " Wrong.     You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?     You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it?     Homosexuality exists in nature outside of the human species. It has been discovered to serve a role in species with higher social structures.     There's a variety of biological factors that lead to homosexuality, and none of them are choices. "

Comparing what animals do versus what humans do is a stretch at best. Animals have been observed 'raping' , having multiple sex partners (so that would make a case for polygamy), incest, molestation, cannibalism and what would amount to pedophilia too. Ofcourse these are illegal and rightfully so.  
 
It is different with animals. Its more to do with dominance and mistakenly smelling scent with the opposite sex.  
 
Just because one may disagree with ones way of living does not mean they hate them as people. In fact, I've known some gay people and we do agree on other things of the thing we call life.  
 
Can we get to the OP story?  

unbreakable1 said "    Torque said "    Trevor B said "think a 'gay' gene has ever been found to show that people are born 'gay'. It's a lifestyle choice. " Wrong.     You think gay people chose to be mistreated and ridiculed and ostrasized for generations?     You think young gay people who commit suicide because their parents and society in general wont accept them chose it?     Homosexuality exists in nature outside of the human species. It has been discovered to serve a role in species with higher social structures.     There's a variety of biological factors that lead to homosexuality, and none of them are choices. " Comparing what animals do versus what humans do is a stretch at best. Animals have been observed 'raping' , having multiple sex partners (so that would make a case for polygamy), incest, molestation, cannibalism and what would amount to pedophilia too. Ofcourse these are illegal and rightfully so.     It is different with animals. Its more to do with dominance and mistakenly smelling scent with the opposite sex.     Just because one may disagree with ones way of living does not mean they hate them as people. In fact, I've known some gay people and we do agree on other things of the thing we call life.     Can we get to the OP story?   "

Nice red herring.  
 
My point with the animals was to show that its a natural behavior not weather I think it's moral or not. I have a hard time believing you couldn't grasp that.  
 
And so what if that makes a case for polygamy? Having more than one sexual partner is not un-natural. You're conflating social structures we've set up, with what's natural in the animal (our) world.  
 
I'm done. Besides getting off topic, I've spent too much time arguing this point.  
 
Have a good weekend everyone.  
 
 
 
Edited by Torque, 2015-08-29 14:10:58

I have read further the bus company has put a gag order on Mr Rau the bus driver, he is a member of a Street preacher church known for their controversial protests, and this is a statment from a labour lawyer in Calgary from that same story  
 
Not a simple case, says lawyer  
 
Labour Lawyer Tom Ross said the case is not a simple one.  
 
"There are human rights obligations on the employer to accommodate religious beliefs within the workplace," Ross said.  
 
But he adds it doesn't appear Rau can make the argument that simply driving the pride bus would imply support for any belief or lifestyle.