Discussions

So I have been told a few different stories about the tax we pay on a used vehicle.  
 
The first one is you buy a used vehicle for 5000. The autopac agent looks up the book value and you pay tax on the higher value. This is unfortunately what I have experienced and been accustomed to.  
 
I had one situation where I purchased a vehicle and the book value I had to pay tax on was questionably high. 95% of the available similar vehicles that were for sale were less than the book value. Of course if it was ever written off I would get the book value....great selling point. Ah the feeling of being screwed.  
 
The second story is that a few people have argued with the autopac agent in regards to this and only paid what was on the bill of sale. What I have been told by one specific individual is that it is not consistent with the autpac agent outlets.  
 
I think if you pay 5000 for a vehicle and autopac wants you to pay on a higher book value it is theft by the government. That simple, but that's my opinion and one voice.  
 
I am wondering what other Brandonites have experienced with their purchases and tax paid.  

Tax is paid on the vehicle when purchased new. Tax is then paid on the same vehicle again and every time that it is sold and registered.

ZachT said "Tax is paid on the vehicle when purchased new. Tax is then paid on the same vehicle again and every time that it is sold and registered. "

But we all want our services. Have to pay for it somehow, but I won't get into that.

One of the reasons that agents go off book value is that people were paying one price for the vehicle and having a bill of sale saying in the price they payed was lower so they would have to pay less tax. Example you paid 5000 for the vehicle you bought and would have to pay $400 pst. But if you got the seller to wright on the bill of sale that you only paid $3000 then your pst would be only $240. The cheaters spoiled it for people that got great deals on vehicles.

sort of the same when you buy used stuff at Value Village. Except, you pay tax on the sticker price of the item, not some book value. And getting a used item from a garage sale you pay no taxes. You also don't have to go to another place to register it and have tax added on to it.  
 
If you buy a used vehicle at a business, you should just have to pay the taxes on the agreed price and that's it. Privately should be like at a garage sale, no taxes.  
 
But really, on used items the tax has already been payed on it when it was purchased new and should not be taxed again.

Your blame of AutoPAC is misplaced. The agents are only carrying out the wishes of Manitoba Taxation. Manitoba Taxation changed the rules to the black book price while the NDP were in power. Thus, the blame should be given to Greg Sellinger and the provincial NDP government.

I went to an agent to register/insure a vehicle I had purchased privately and book value was double what I paid for the vehicle. The higher price is what I paid tax on.  

you can get the tax back on the selling price of your vehicle if you buy a new one within a certain period of time.  
(I think its 2 months, but you should check on that with your MPIC agent.)  
But I would not be surprised if many people do not know about this or forget to put in the claim.

Unless you buy it from a family member, then they will only charge on the amount on the BOS. If I remember correctly they can give it to you for $1.00

They look at the price on the bill of sale and the price in the gold book and charge tax on the higher value. If you buy and sell within 6 months you can apply for a portion of the tax back. MPIs website has all the info for this.

If the book value is significantly higher than what you actually paid, you can get an appraisal of the vehicle from a dealership showing the lower value. You can then claim a refund of the difference in PST.  
 
Example: I purchased a used van some years ago that had over 700,000 km on the odometer. It was a business van and I paid $5000 for it. MPI said the book value was $16,000 and charged me PST on that amount. I took the van to a dealership and on the appraisal certificate under "reason for value" they put [b]700,000km[/b] in big block letters with exclamation marks and underlines, and declared a value of $5,000 on the van. I got my sales tax refund.  

Keep it simple stupid.  
 
I agree with MPI here. Book value is what you get if it was written off( at a minimum ). I understand the book value thing only comes up in private sales. MPI does not step in if it is a local dealer .Some one with dealer plates etc.  
 
Tax cheaters ruined it for all of us. The only other way these scammers could be caught is if the agents were told to flag low ballers .  
 
Which would probably mean no insurance until some investigation. Maybe adding another layer of checks and balances. Paper work orca visit to a claims centre.  
 
 
The way it is now is simple. Black and white. if the person who is trying to insure the car saved 2000 on a 5000 dollar car good for them. MPI says it is a 5000 dollar car pay your tax. They saved one way. They should be happy with that. I guess MPI could get the insurer to sign away that 2000 gain if the car was written off when registering the car. I would hate to see that.  

The book value I paid was Black book, which is wholesale value. Then the agent told me what the book said retail would be, but I paid tax on wholesale.  

You pay tax on the wholesale value of the used vehicle when you register it. The previous owner has 6 months to apply for the tax back he paid. You can only get the tax back if you sell a vehicle and not if you scrap it.  
 

Doug said "Keep it simple stupid.     I agree with MPI here. Book value is what you get if it was written off( at a minimum ). I understand the book value thing only comes up in private sales. MPI does not step in if it is a local dealer .Some one with dealer plates etc.     Tax cheaters ruined it for all of us. The only other way these scammers could be caught is if the agents were told to flag low ballers .     Which would probably mean no insurance until some investigation. Maybe adding another layer of checks and balances. Paper work orca visit to a claims centre.       The way it is now is simple. Black and white. if the person who is trying to insure the car saved 2000 on a 5000 dollar car good for them. MPI says it is a 5000 dollar car pay your tax. They saved one way. They should be happy with that. I guess MPI could get the insurer to sign away that 2000 gain if the car was written off when registering the car. I would hate to see that.   "

I don't agree with you here. Your point would make sense if the vehicle was purchased outside the province because no tax was paid for the vehicle prior to entering the MPI system. Vehicles bought new in MB already paid full taxes ones so every time else is just a bonus and sorry I call that scam .

Talk about robbery, I had a friend who lived in Albert for awhile and purchased a vehicle when they lived there. The car had been paid off. The friend later decided to move back to Manitoba and when they went to get a Manitoba license and register the vehicle. MPI had them pay the tax on the vehicle before it could be registered. Thats unbelievable the car had already been bought and payed for. That my friends is a money grab.

Doug said "Keep it simple stupid.     I agree with MPI here. Book value is what you get if it was written off( at a minimum ). I understand the book value thing only comes up in private sales. MPI does not step in if it is a local dealer .Some one with dealer plates etc.     Tax cheaters ruined it for all of us. The only other way these scammers could be caught is if the agents were told to flag low ballers .     Which would probably mean no insurance until some investigation. Maybe adding another layer of checks and balances. Paper work orca visit to a claims centre.       The way it is now is simple. Black and white. if the person who is trying to insure the car saved 2000 on a 5000 dollar car good for them. MPI says it is a 5000 dollar car pay your tax. They saved one way. They should be happy with that. I guess MPI could get the insurer to sign away that 2000 gain if the car was written off when registering the car. I would hate to see that.   "

You got a really good deal at an auction. Then you pay tax only on the purchase price: this from a "discussion" I had on this exact topic with the MB taxation department.

MrConcern said "Talk about robbery, I had a friend who lived in Albert for awhile and purchased a vehicle when they lived there. The car had been paid off. The friend later decided to move back to Manitoba and when they went to get a Manitoba license and register the vehicle. MPI had them pay the tax on the vehicle before it could be registered. Thats unbelievable the car had already been bought and payed for. That my friends is a money grab. "

the way you say it did, then the person who processed the registration did it wrong. You are exempt from paying tax when you bring a vehicle in from another province, as long as you have owned it for more than 6 months while living in the other province.  
 
Depending on how long ago this happened your friend might be able to get that money back.

MrConcern said "Talk about robbery, I had a friend who lived in Albert for awhile and purchased a vehicle when they lived there. The car had been paid off. The friend later decided to move back to Manitoba and when they went to get a Manitoba license and register the vehicle. MPI had them pay the tax on the vehicle before it could be registered. Thats unbelievable the car had already been bought and payed for. That my friends is a money grab. "

It was probably a safety that had to be done before registration as all out of provinces vehicles require one. There is no tax if you own the auto and move to Manitoba.  
 
Edited by Gmaj7, 2015-09-19 16:16:06

Reston said "    Doug said "Keep it simple stupid.     I agree with MPI here. Book value is what you get if it was written off( at a minimum ). I understand the book value thing only comes up in private sales. MPI does not step in if it is a local dealer .Some one with dealer plates etc.     Tax cheaters ruined it for all of us. The only other way these scammers could be caught is if the agents were told to flag low ballers .     Which would probably mean no insurance until some investigation. Maybe adding another layer of checks and balances. Paper work orca visit to a claims centre.       The way it is now is simple. Black and white. if the person who is trying to insure the car saved 2000 on a 5000 dollar car good for them. MPI says it is a 5000 dollar car pay your tax. They saved one way. They should be happy with that. I guess MPI could get the insurer to sign away that 2000 gain if the car was written off when registering the car. I would hate to see that.   " I don't agree with you here. Your point would make sense if the vehicle was purchased outside the province because no tax was paid for the vehicle prior to entering the MPI system. Vehicles bought new in MB already paid full taxes ones so every time else is just a bonus and sorry I call that scam . "

Gotta agree, Reston, it's a scam. I had my father gift me a car some years back. When I went to register it, I was told I had to pay tax on the book value. I argued that it was a gift from a parent and was exempt from being taxed. The agent told me that because my father lived in Ontario, the car had never had tax paid on it in Manitoba, so I have to pay now. But, I said, it was originally purchased by him in Steinbach [i]Manitoba[/i]. Doesn't matter, I was told. It's coming from Ontario so it can't be gifted to you without paying tax on the book value. Total and complete rip off.

I moved to this beautiful city from Alberta in 2014. Once moving here I went to a local MPI agent and was told my vehicle would first gave to be safetied. Once completed I would have to pay 8% Mb sales tax on the original purchase price of my vehicle. That's 8% on a $34,000 vehicle with 80,000 kms. So I asked the question, if I drive out of your parking lot and the cehicle is in an accident and written off would I receive the original purchase price of $34,000. I was told no I would receive the depreciated value!!! Well call me stupid but this makes no sense. So I had to pay the 8% on the original purchase price from 2013.  
I did write a letter to Selling er and MLA but did not receive a response. I gave since bought and sold a vehicle privately and have been waiting 6 weeks for my refund minus the $25 administration fee. Don't we already pay their wages thru taxes. In my humble opinion, MPI needs to be privatized or at the least, have some fairness to the norm Manitoba. Just saying.

Manitoba has strict rules on family members gifting vehicles. It doesn't go much deeper than parents to kids. My grandma had an old car she was giving me and she first had to gift it to my Dad and then he could gift it to me.. If i remember correctly each time it was gifted there was a $15 dollar fee to process the paper work. Almost as much if I just paid the taxes...ha!

in Saskatchewan the provincial tax is paid by the original buyer,and then it is not paid again

sprinter said "in Saskatchewan the provincial tax is paid by the original buyer,and then it is not paid again "

Firstly some out of province safeties are accepted in MB SGI for one. This is not reciprocated by SK, their safety is much stricter. This is slightly off topic but MB could be adopting a new safety system soon More $$$$$$$ for gov.  
For those who are not aware of this  
http://www.mpisucks.com/view_blog.php  
makes for some interesting reading.  
I have been to 3 different offices to enquire about limited mileage and all 3 pretty much said they didn't know what I was talking about.  
I know it's available, but obviously they have been told to plead the 5th.  
Until people in this province take some action, nothing will change. They took action in SK and yes it was scrapped.They should do the same with the registration fee as well. I always feel like I have had my pants pulled down and been severly abused whenever I leave there

First off let's get to the numbers. MPI is raping us for tax over and over. That's not fair in my opinion and from this thread the opinion of the majority.  
 
1) So if the tax was removed by the voice of many what services would we loose from that tax base? The reality is they government is using that money for something. What I am not sure of, but its going somewhere.  
 
2) Is this as simple as putting starting a petition to force the issue in government? I believe the petition needs so many signature before it is deemed relevant to go before the government.

1 + 1 = Everything said "First off let's get to the numbers. MPI is raping us for tax over and over. That's not fair in my opinion and from this thread the opinion of the majority.     1) So if the tax was removed by the voice of many what services would we loose from that tax base? The reality is they government is using that money for something. What I am not sure of, but its going somewhere.     2) Is this as simple as putting starting a petition to force the issue in government? I believe the petition needs so many signature before it is deemed relevant to go before the government. "

Probably the first step toward improvement would be to get rid of the current Provincial Government. If we (our government) had better fiscal management the lost tax dollars might not mean loosing services, or at least not to the same degree. Maybe it should become an election issue.  
 
 
If I remember correctly, the idea behind MPIC in the beginning was to ensure that all motorists had insurance and at a reasonable rate. Nearly 45 years later it's become a monster that many are dissatisfied with, for the most part, with good reason.  
 
Edited by fargobob, 2015-09-19 23:51:45

fargobob said "    1 + 1 = Everything said "First off let's get to the numbers. MPI is raping us for tax over and over. That's not fair in my opinion and from this thread the opinion of the majority.     1) So if the tax was removed by the voice of many what services would we loose from that tax base? The reality is they government is using that money for something. What I am not sure of, but its going somewhere.     2) Is this as simple as putting starting a petition to force the issue in government? I believe the petition needs so many signature before it is deemed relevant to go before the government. " Probably the first step toward improvement would be to get rid of the current Provincial Government. If we (our government) had better fiscal management the lost tax dollars might not mean loosing services, or at least not to the same degree. Maybe it should become an election issue.       If I remember correctly, the idea behind MPIC in the beginning was to ensure that all motorists had insurance and at a reasonable rate. Nearly 45 years later it's become a monster that many are dissatisfied with, for the most part, with good reason.     Edited by fargobob, 2015-09-19 23:51:45"

Its provincial sales tax, getting rid of MPI wont change a thing, they just collect the money for the government, just like any car dealership that charges tax they don't get to keep it.