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There are literally laws being passed, making abortion illegal in some places at any term of the pregnancy. That is 100 percent forcing someone to have a baby that they may not want, or is that not obvious?  
 
Maybe not that you have no morals, but if you think it is okay to demand that someone carries a pregnancy to term against their will, then yes, you are, on some level, a bad person. Not to say that almost everyone on this planet isn't a bad person on some level, but in this case, this is one of the qualifiers of being bad, in my opinion.  
 
Edited by Teacherman, 2019-07-14 23:31:08

Re: ”No one is forcing anyone against their will to have a child. I dont know where you get that assumption from.”  
 
Have you read what you just wrote? If a women’s legal right to an abortion gets overturned because of special interest anti-abortion groups getting the law repealed, then women will be forced to give birth to an unwanted pregnacy. What other choice would they have?  
 
Edited by shopper1, 2019-07-14 23:48:28

Teacherman, the question wasn't when a baby is viable (oh, you called it a baby). One could argue they are not viable at age 10. The question was "When does science say life begins?" technically there is no beginning of life at that stage as throughout the process the the subject is living. from the sperm and egg to the time it dies at 90 years of age it was alive. throughout the process, never does a non-living thing become alive. When is it Human? well throughout the process the material is human cells... from the egg and sperm to the time it dies at age 90. When to call it a baby? when to call it a fetus? At what stage is it OK to kill a human?  
 
If you kill a single cell it's still killing. When is it OK to kill a fetus... In some states in the USA late term abortion is being promoted. Is it OK to kill a fetus/baby at 9 months?  
 
I'm pro-life, However I'm also Pro-choice. Why? Because God himself gives everyone the right to choose. Before every person he places choices, life or death, good or evil. He asks them to choose life... to choose good. It is because of that principle that we have evil in this world... because too many of us choose evil with the free choice God granted us.  
 
So let us choose life, with by our own choice. Let us promote adoption, and make it easy to adopt. Let us give women better alternatives then then to have to choose to kill that life which they carry. The funds that go into pro-abortion causes could easily be diverted to promoting better alternatives such as adoptions. let us invest into the life's of those adopted of those in foster care and of those in single parent situations. let us invest in helping defend all of our children, from the time conceived to the time they die of natural causes at age 90 and beyond.

Pro-life is about forcing, robbing a woman of her ability to decide things about herself. If you are committed to a cause dedicated to robbing women who are not you of their right to determine their own future, then yes, you are a bad person. Why should you be able to dictate how her body is used?  
 
Foolishly trusting in Internet anonymity, here's the big reveal: I haven't. My insides are broken and I can't have kids. This is super awful because there's nothing more that I want to be able to do. I have lived the majority of my life being depressed and miserable, to the point of suicide attempts in my youth because of it. I can't even begin to describe the heartbreak and inadequacy and notion that I'm disappointing my parents (See: irrational belief). That said, I am no stranger to dealing with abortion, delivering confidantes to have them safely performed with discretion. I know what goes on. I listen and feel always. I can tell you that it makes Winnipeg feel like a very far away place, and the trek back that much further away.

Shame on you.  
 
Really? Is basically "as long as it doesn't happen here, I'm okay with it" the extent of your conviction? Again, this is why it's not actually about any sort of children and instead about your belief.  
 
This is the vile, malicious heart of pro-life intention.  
 
Edited by Hashidoi, 2019-07-15 01:29:53

But you just said in your previous post that someone's options should be 'carry it to term', or 'abort it somewhere else'.  
 
What kind of options are those? They are the options that serve you. Your beliefs. It's not even pro-life, strictly speaking, since apparently you're okay with abortions as long as they don't happen in proximity to you.  
 
There are no words to describe how revolting and shallow this is. How does one say, "Oh, I'm pro-life, but it's okay to have abortions as long as they're not near me."?  
 
So again, for all to see, here is the depth of pro-life conviction on display: Shallow, selfish and belief-driven.

The thing is that the pro-life movement wants to limit where abortions can be done, to crusade for as long as it takes until there are no places where abortions can be done. If you subscribe to the tenets of pro-life, then this is part of your o:bjective.  
 
I am acting in opposition to this.  
 
So, in the very post I am responding to you state "...there are options of adoption or keeping the baby. Has nothing to do with me,"  
 
And so we come back to the point I keep reiterating, the point that disgusts me so much: you want to stick someone with a baby, doesn't matter who, just as long as a baby happens. That's all that matters, apparently. After that, not your problem, or "has nothing to do with me" in your words.  
 
In this scheme, the consequences of forcing someone else to have a child are not endured by you. It "has nothing to do with me," as you say. As a declared member of the pro-life movement, it is implied that this is what you want. You want force a woman to have a baby, and by your own admission you don't want anything to do with it afterwards.  
 
Awfully convenient for you.  
 
This is why I bite back and attack, as you say, because this line of reasoning is despicable. And again, I ask: what sort of awful person forces another to bear a child against her will?  
 
Edited by Hashidoi, 2019-07-15 03:45:33

What if that woman doesn't have the means, or the ability to get themselves to a jurisdiction that does allow abortions? Oh well, better luck next time?  
 
I'm trying to wrap my head around your stance on the issue, as it seems a bit ambiguous sometimes. I actually think you're pro-choice but don't realize it, but you're a NIMBY about abortions (which is the oddest stance yet). Go somewhere else for an abortion, that's okay, but not in my backyard. If going somewhere else for an abortion is fine, why force the woman to travel? If a woman can travel to, lets say BC for an abortion, why not allow them in Manitoba and remove the hassle of getting to BC?  
 
Edited by Trevor, 2019-07-15 09:18:18

I am going to come across as a real cow here, and I am not trying to make you feel even worse about your traumatic experience because this topic is not something I take lightly whatsoever, however,  
 
You have said 3 times now that you were forced to have an abortion and have been very vocal in this thread so I feel like that is allowing myself and others to comment on your situation a bit, as you were the one that has brought it up. I will delete this response if need be because I am not intending to hurt you deeply, or at all, I enjoy talking things through and exploring different outcomes but not at the expense of others.  
 
Unless you were physically tied down to the table, and sedated, you were not forced to have an abortion. You were maybe mislead with information, and pressured by the people around you but not forced. I may be wrong about the times as well as I am only in my 30's have no children, and never experience an unplanned pregnancy myself so it is easier for me to comment on the topic without being emotional about it. At the end of the day, you still had the choice. The choice to go through with it, or not to, the choice to do the research yourself of what a child is considered at each stage of pregnancy, yes we should be able to trust our medical professionals but unfortunately that's not the way it is going to be all the time, the internet most defiantly was not prominent at that time, but there were libraries, and others that have had similar experiences you probably could have reached out to learn about. Yes I imagine at that time it wasn't something talked about widely like it is now but there was still ways to gather information, we did manage to do things before the world was taken over by tech. You did it afterwards, why not then? I am very glad you ended up raising a lovely young man that appreciates you for what you raised him to be. I don't view abortion as birth control, I don't think others should either. I feel like you learned something about yourself from this terrible mistake (your word) and in no means am I pinning this mistake directly on you but the fact that you are saying you were forced says to me that maybe you yourself were not ready to bring this child of yours into the world, or you could have to a group of people surrounding you not wanting this child and ended up with a worse situation, I am sure you would have ended up raising this child the way you raised your son but at that point in time you seemed to not have that strength. I truly believe things happen for a reason, and I can't say for sure but I feel like this experience led you to be able to raise another child and raise him right or to put everything into it because of this past experience and your regrets. I will however say that I 100% agree with you that people should truly understand what they are signing up for, what happens during each stage and how it will effect you afterwards. Don't quote me on this but I feel what most people are getting worked up about is that fact that this choice (which you had, even if you feel otherwise) is starting to be taken away from others and people can't relate to how you feel or understand when you feel like you should have had the choice to have your baby instead of being forced to abort, and they feel like they should have the choice to make the decision IF they don't want to bring a child into the world. I truly apologize if I upset you with this, if I am way off the mark, or if I am completely off what truly happened to you. Like I said, I will delete this comment if you wish.

I do wonder why some women are not owning the consequences of their actions - having unprotected sex which led to pregnancy. Obviously in the case of rape, the woman can't help what has happened to her. Or the case of children having sex -by children I mean under 18 - they simply might not have the maturity to comprehend what could result by having unprotected sex. I know of a woman who has had 3 abortions here in Brandon who refuses to go on birth control because her friends told her she would get fat. There seems to be a lack of taking ownership for your actions in today's society.  
 
I'm not going to physically stop anyone from having an abortion so I also wouldn't tell a woman what she can or can't do. I wouldn't judge a woman for the choice she makes. It's not for me to judge. I do think, however, that the reason abortion is always such a heated discussion is that, deep down, everyone knows it's wrong.  
 
Edited by TDCAU, 2019-07-15 14:55:34

Agree.  
 
The movie reminds me to make more frequent donations to the local Crisis Pregnancy Centre to support it so that way women may have materials and information in a comfortable place to help them where they need it. I may not have the proper background/materials to help someone but perhaps a little could go a long ways.  
 
Edited by Seana-T, 2019-07-15 15:03:00

We have, and currently the laws here allow abortions. But in some of the States we are seeing movements to overturn Roe v Wade, making abortions illegal. I hope we never see this happen in Canada, but with the way society is going I'd never say never.  
 
I'm not going to re-read this entire thread, and I can't recall if you were directly asked this or not, so here it goes:  
 
Do you want to see abortion made illegal?

You shouldn't use the term pro-abortion, as I don't think anybody here is pro-abortion. That would imply that we were encouraging women to get abortions, that is not the case. Pro-choice was the term you were looking for.

I will eventually watch this movie even though I’m sure it will anger me. I am pro choice/pro option. Taking away the option will just result in illegal and dangerous abortions.  
 
There are times that doctors will recommend an abortion for the mothers safety or because there’s an issue with the baby. How would pro lifer’s feel if the choice to KEEP the baby was taken from you?? Probably the same way that pro choicer’s feel when talk of making abortion illegal pops up don’t you think?  
 
I don’t have an issue with anyone who decides that abortion isn’t the choice for them but I do have an issue when these people want to take that choice away from others. Not your baby, not your body, not your choice.  
 
I also have a bit of an issue with those who think abortions are wrong but yet, aren’t willing to help out these children after being born to women who didn’t want them. Where’s the pro lifer’s then?? You want to force people to have babies but then don’t want to help raise them or care for them when they’re tossed aside from people who shouldn’t be parents in the first place.  
 
I totally respect people’s choice to not have an abortion...I can’t say that I fully understand why people are still not on board with pro choice for others. Being pro life to me seems a bit backwards, hypocritical and close minded imo. What other people decide to do for their own life/body is nobody else’s business. You can be pro choice but still not agree with aborting but it shows your support for those who feel it’s the best choice for them  
 
Pro choice is NOT pro abortion. Nobody is pro abortion. Nobody is running around saying, “get an abortion! It’s the cool thing to do! Etc etc” I feel that people get that mixed up and some are not intellectually capable of realizing the difference imo. Those are the kind of people that anger me  
 
If you want the choice to keep a baby that a doctor advises against then you need to allow others the choice to abort if that’s what they want.  
 
Taking away people’s choices is what scares me more than abortions!

Murder | Definition From Merriam-Webster:  
The crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought was convicted of murder.  
 
Person | Definition from Wikipedia:  
A person is a being that has certain capacities or attributes such as reason, morality, consciousness or self-consciousness.

How convenient that the woman must bear the consequences. Who are you, to dictate such terms to her?  
 
But here we are, in a world where abortion needs to be an option, even though it's a course no one would like to take.

I am just crusading to make sure that abortion continues to be an option. Pro-life, by its very nature and name, seeks to deprive women of this option.  
 
The idea of depriving a woman of this option is absolutely despicable and vile, and all of those other awful offensive names that I've called it. This is it. This is the issue. This isn't about other options. This is about the option of abortion.  
 
As I'd said much earlier, if a woman chooses to carry to term, that is her choice. Her choice.  
 
It's not like I'm fanatically proposing that abortions must be had. I'm just fighting to keep it as a potential option.  
 
We have to make sure that we continue to have abortion as one of these potential choices.  
 
When you declare yourself pro-life, you are declaring for an ideology that takes abortion as one of the potential choices away.  
 
If forcing a woman to carry to term is not your end goal, then you are not pro-life because you respect a woman's right to choose.  
 
There's no grey area here.  
PRO-LIFE: she's having a baby no matter what.  
PRO-CHOICE: she gets to decide how to proceed.  
Herein lies the nature of my vitriol.  
 
I am all about informed options. I am just striving to ensure that -all- options remain available. No singular option should be discouraged. All options have equal value. All options should be presented in a neutral fashion. So that she, who must bear the burden of her decision for good or ill, can singularly decide.  
 
To remain on topic: this is the problem with Unplanned. It seeks to portray abortion, a potential option, in an undeniably negative light.  
 
Edited by Hashidoi, 2019-07-15 21:46:19

^^^^^^  
 
Well said!

I would like to thank you for this response, because it strikes me as being very rational, and heartfelt, and honest. Thank you. No little thumbs-up icon in the corner would do your post justice.  
 
Edited by Hashidoi, 2019-07-15 21:47:34

One of the biggest problems I see is that the majority of the population is probably open to reason on this topic while the extremists on either end ( likely a much smaller percentage of the population) take up the majority of the attention. One end of the spectrum shouts no one should ever be allowed to have an abortion ever under any circumstances. The other extreme demands that abortions should be available everywhere, for free and with no questions asked.  
 
It is my hope that there is room for logic and compromise on this issue but, it is my fear that, society's ability to use compromise and reason is becoming increasingly non existent.

And who decides what a woman should do?  
 
Edited by Hashidoi, 2019-07-15 23:22:26

The legalitites of abortion has been decided long ago by both the Supreme Court of Canada and the Supreme Court of USA. Back in the 1950's and 60's Abortion was a Criminal Code Offence where both mother and Doctor would be sentenced to a Jail term. As a result my women turned to what I will refer to as "back yard butchers" or traveled to Mexico for the procedure. Many suffered complications which resulted in a trip to the ER or even death - complications included infections, excessive bleeding etc. Due to complications and unorthodox procedures many women were left in the position of never being able to have future children. We don't need to go back to these days - women deserve the freedom of choice and if the choice is an abortion then they should have the confident that the procedure will be done by a qualified Doctor in a proper sterile clinic or hospital where the risk of complication and infection is minimum.

Pro-choice... I don’t care if you have 5 abortions or 5 children, or more... don’t tell me what to do what my body. Save the life living not the idea, unless you believe otherwise- then do what you want. Free Choice, in a great country.

About 30 years ago I saw Dr Mogenthaler speak at the University of Manitoba. I highly recommend that if you are going to watch that movie you do a little research on him. He was arrested multiple times and still fought for women’s rights. He also talked about the science behind the development of a human and when it becomes a just a bunch of cell to the start of being a human.  
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I personally think if you don’t believe in abortion, don’t have one. But your beliefs should prevent someone else from doing what is right from them. You’ve never been in their shoes. Shame on anyone that judges.

Shouldn’t prevent someone......oops typo

I don't believe anyone gets to tell a woman what choice she should make but I strongly believe that society has the right and the obligation to limit personal freedoms in some circumstances. It does so in all aspects of life and even the Roe v. Wade decision allowed States to enact varying levels of restrictions in various circumstances.  
 
We enjoy the ability to choose everyday but that does not mean we are entitled to an unlimited array of choices. It never has and never will.

Nice point

No, because he doesn't have to go through any of the pain, damage to the body, or general hardships of the pregnancy or birth. As a man, I can't possibly imagine demanding a woman carry my child against her will. Until the bundle of cells becomes a viable child then it is one hundred percent a part of the woman, and nobody, not even the sperm donor, should be able to demand that she takes the toll of child birth against her will.

For sure, I am definitely on board with discussing all of the options with everyone involved. If the man is invested in the relationship and wants to have the child and raise it, all the power to them. However, when push comes to shove, no matter his beliefs or intentions, this man is trash if he tries to pressure or force the woman to carry the pregnancy to term if she is against it.

I thought this post was about a movie? Go see the movie than discuss this. I have read these posts and cried as I read your story Sherbear. I wasn't going to see this movie because of the content but I will now.