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UK police EV's

UK police EV's

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
7/14/2022 at 4:05 PM

I wonder if I’ll be able to hire an autonomous vehicle to pull my cattle trailer across the pasture ?
Densification won’t help those of us living outside of the city very much.
Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Not one size
7/14/2022 at 5:47 PM

Farmergeorge said "I wonder if I’ll be able to hire an autonomous vehicle to pull my cattle trailer across the pasture ?
Densification won’t help those of us living outside of the city very much. "
Don't be obtuse. There obviously needs to be a different solution for people living outside urban areas. But the reality is that 3 out of 4 Canadians live in urban environments and if they leave their home urban environment, they go to another urban environment. Hell, in Manitoba more than 1 in 2 live in the *same* city. Go for the low hanging fruit. We need to start someplace.

We will never completely eliminate fossil fuels. Farming will probably always require it somewhat, as will the North. But for most Canadians, we can take a lot of steps to reduce the amount in our lives.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
7/14/2022 at 7:30 PM

Abbysmum said "Don't be obtuse. There obviously needs to be a different solution for people living outside urban areas. But the reality is that 3 out of 4 Canadians live in urban environments and if they leave their home urban environment, they go to another urban environment. Hell, in Manitoba more than 1 in 2 live in the *same* city. Go for the low hanging fruit. We need to start someplace.

We will never completely eliminate fossil fuels. Farming will probably always require it somewhat, as will the North. But for most Canadians, we can take a lot of steps to reduce the amount in our lives. "
That was just a bit of fun. As for fossil fuels I think you are wrong. I think that they will be fazed out more quickly than we realize and I don’t agree that there will always be a place for them.
Truth is though it will be a long time before city planning is modernized and many people in North America are going to be reluctant to give up their personal vehicle, the lifestyle and freedoms.
By the time all of those changes occur there won’t be many families living in the countryside anymore and there sure won’t be many agricultural producers left so those left will just have to adapt to a new reality. The one constant is change. The changes coming to all of our lives are difficult to imagine and inevitable.
Zekeland
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 350

Zekeland
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 350

producers
7/14/2022 at 10:12 PM

So with all of the prairies vast farmland shut down so to speak as u mentioned, where does Canada get all of our food? Where do all the countries that import a bunch of our grains get their food?

Lots of lofty goals for this green revolution, but lots of politicians not looking at the greater results of completely phasing out fossil fuels.

Keep dreaming
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
7/15/2022 at 9:03 AM

Zekeland said "So with all of the prairies vast farmland shut down so to speak as u mentioned, where does Canada get all of our food? Where do all the countries that import a bunch of our grains get their food?

Lots of lofty goals for this green revolution, but lots of politicians not looking at the greater results of completely phasing out fossil fuels.

Keep dreaming "
No one is thinking about the practical implications or the wholesale embrace of any of these polices and some of the as yet unproven technologies and possible negative effects to peoples lives are not being considered.
These things are going to happen. Government is set on these changes regardless and we are all going to have to adapt our lives to suit.

Edited by Farmergeorge, 2022-07-15 09:20:08
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Battery tech
7/17/2022 at 3:09 PM

A good summary of ongoing developments in battery tech, including GM working toward their goal of the million mile battery:
https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/the-new-batteries-that-will-make-you-an-electric-car-believer/

Sounds like GM is announcing more on the electric Blazer tomorrow, with electric Equinox in the works too. This is what I talk about re manufacturers filling in the gaps in vehicle types. Challenge for me is that even if I wanted to get in line for one, I’m still not the type to blindly commit until there are at least third party real world range tests in weather along the lines of our winters to know if a vehicle can be a sort of Swiss Army knife for all of our needs or if we would need a second for longer road trips until charter networks are at least further built out.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Vehicles
7/17/2022 at 3:24 PM

Farmergeorge said "I wonder if I’ll be able to hire an autonomous vehicle to pull my cattle trailer across the pasture ?
Densification won’t help those of us living outside of the city very much. "
Obviously on the autonomous side of things the work being done is geared toward specific use cases.
As far as electrification of vehicles beyond traditional cars/trucks/etc... Companies with the expertise are working hard at electrifying all sorts of specialized vehicles. One of the bigger manufacturers, Proterra, has a partnership with Komatsu with their eyes on the market for excavators along with underground mining machines. Emphasis on "strong, lightweight ballistic-grade materials that withstand the toughest conditions." https://www.proterra.com/applications/construction-mining/
A lot of work by different manufacturers going into electric school buses, commercial delivery vehicles, ambulances, garbage trucks among others.

It's not black or white and it's not happening overnight. Every vehicle type has its own requirements and so it will take time and in a lot of cases a mix of vehicles powered in different ways. Who knows, maybe there'll be the odd vehicle type where for whatever reason even after advances in tech it just won't work but it’ll be exciting to see the transition play out and to see the ways innovation can lead to us burning less fossil.
Simonwalcal
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 839

Simonwalcal
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 839

…
7/17/2022 at 4:07 PM

Since passenger vehicles make up 50 to 60% of all petroleum consumption, that is a huge chunk no matter how you slice it. Also a figure worth noting for anyone with lots of investment in the tar sands. That process will become unprofitable long before you carve away even 20% of current demand. But that is a whole new can of worms.

Edited by Simonwalcal, 2022-07-17 16:08:16
Kevin85
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 44

Kevin85
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 44

Not just gas and diesel
7/17/2022 at 9:43 PM

What about all the petroleum products needed to manufacture these electrical components, the plastics, rubber hoses, wire insulators, oils for lubrication of moving parts, seals to contain the oils, etc. Will we be going back to wool, wood, glass and fiber? I think there will be a needing fossil fuels for a long time coming.
Simonwalcal
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 839

Simonwalcal
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 839

....
7/18/2022 at 2:21 PM

Itspronouncedjiff said "What about all the petroleum products needed to manufacture these electrical components, the plastics, rubber hoses, wire insulators, oils for lubrication of moving parts, seals to contain the oils, etc. Will we be going back to wool, wood, glass and fiber? I think there will be a needing fossil fuels for a long time coming. "
Last I checked plastic production used only about 2% of the total petroleum being produced. Plastic ain't going anywhere.

May there be better thought materials? Likely. But original virgin plastic isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Oil producers
7/18/2022 at 8:00 PM

Simonwalcal said "Since passenger vehicles make up 50 to 60% of all petroleum consumption, that is a huge chunk no matter how you slice it. Also a figure worth noting for anyone with lots of investment in the tar sands. That process will become unprofitable long before you carve away even 20% of current demand. But that is a whole new can of worms.

Edited by Simonwalcal, 2022-07-17 16:08:16"
We saw during early days of COVID what happens when oil demand isn't there, but the conundrum right now is that oil producers are ridiculously profitable at these oil price levels. Canada’s two biggest producers could buy back *all* shares and debt with less than four years of $100+/barrel of WTI and then it’s pure cash flow from there:
Every day above $100WTI is a spectacular day. pic.twitter.com/K6zEPTBnus
&mdash: Eric Nuttall (@ericnuttall) July 18, 2022

There are real questions to be answered as EV tech matures, but I have no doubt that especially when we see political and ideological divisions creep into these kinds of discussions that at least a meaningful percentage (but of course not all) of the more aggressive pushback… the climate change denial and the use of red herrings to throw sand in the gears… is that massive profit potential being put before planet.
JeremyPerriman
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 29

JeremyPerriman
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 29

where to plug in.
7/18/2022 at 10:44 PM

So just curious where are these construction crews gonna plug in when working on a highway or building new developments. Or the farmer that is miles away from his yard. Or the logging company that is 40 miles back into the bush in northern Alberta. There are many things that need to be figured out long before everything gets switched to electric. We will still be dependent on the oil industry for years to come.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Blazer EV
7/23/2022 at 7:37 PM

Blazer EV claiming range of 247 to 320 miles (which would be 533km at the high end) depending on trim level. Personally would still need to see real world winter tested 3rd party range testing, but GM really looks to be moving the needle here between looks and capability at the price points they’re going for (they do have a disclaimer around the price so will see what they ultimately come in at). As much as I don't go as far as getting excited about any given car because it's in the end to us a depreciable asset to get me and family from A to B and that emotion might work against a person in any purchase process, I do wonder if UK Police are paying attention :)
https://www.chevrolet.com/upcoming-vehicles/blazer-ev/
hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 859

hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 859

Mercedes
7/23/2022 at 8:09 PM

Reading the latest issue of car and driver they did a quick article on a new mercedes EV that gets a claimed 350 mile range and then actually met its claim in real world driving at 75 mph, not a 15-40% loss like most other manufacturers window stickers claim, EV or gas for that matter, unfortunately its on a $120k car but maybe a sign of things to come as the tech trickles down.

I still can't help but laugh at the ford transit commercial van with a 100 mile range though, I can understand the urban person only needing 80-100 miles of range but a contractor or technician being limited to 100 miles just seems silly.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Data
7/24/2022 at 11:46 AM

hutchster said "Reading the latest issue of car and driver they did a quick article on a new mercedes EV that gets a claimed 350 mile range and then actually met its claim in real world driving at 75 mph, not a 15-40% loss like most other manufacturers window stickers claim, EV or gas for that matter, unfortunately its on a $120k car but maybe a sign of things to come as the tech trickles down.

I still can't help but laugh at the ford transit commercial van with a 100 mile range though, I can understand the urban person only needing 80-100 miles of range but a contractor or technician being limited to 100 miles just seems silly. "

Mustang Mach E, which in testing has exceeded its EPA rating:
https://insideevs.com/reviews/520484/mustang-mach-e-range-test/amp/

As did the Hyundai Ioniq 5:
https://www.edmunds.com/amp/car-news/tested-2022-hyundai-ioniq-5-dual-motor-goes-270-miles-on-a-charge.html

Per the link below, they’re saying they’ve noticed a trend with Teslas coming in under in their particular test:
https://insideevs.com/reviews/505288/tesla-model-3-highway-range-test/amp/

Will be interesting to see more and more vehicles tested in our conditions. Clearly some variance from vehicle to vehicle, manufacturer to manufacturer and test to test, but your implying that the only electrics that live up to their range rating are 100k+ specialty luxury vehicles is just flat out false or at the very least anchored in biases of the past.
Re the example of the commercial vehicle, this is most likely a last mile vehicle whose purpose is to drive less than that between daily charges... but a link versus an uncited anecdote would be a lot more as a basis for discussion.
hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 859

hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 859

...
7/24/2022 at 1:57 PM

Adam said "

Mustang Mach E, which in testing has exceeded its EPA rating:
https://insideevs.com/reviews/520484/mustang-mach-e-range-test/amp/

As did the Hyundai Ioniq 5:
https://www.edmunds.com/amp/car-news/tested-2022-hyundai-ioniq-5-dual-motor-goes-270-miles-on-a-charge.html

Per the link below, they’re saying they’ve noticed a trend with Teslas coming in under in their particular test:
https://insideevs.com/reviews/505288/tesla-model-3-highway-range-test/amp/

Will be interesting to see more and more vehicles tested in our conditions. Clearly some variance from vehicle to vehicle, manufacturer to manufacturer and test to test, but your implying that the only electrics that live up to their range rating are 100k+ specialty luxury vehicles is just flat out false or at the very least anchored in biases of the past.
Re the example of the commercial vehicle, this is most likely a last mile vehicle whose purpose is to drive less than that between daily charges... but a link versus an uncited anecdote would be a lot more as a basis for discussion.
"
I can't speak to any other test reviewers or sites but I see those 2 insideevs.com reviews state their test is a continuous 70mph cruise down the freeway.

95% of my car info comes from car and driver, I like the magazine,they have a test loop they use that's a combination of city and highway driving that I feel is a good real world test.

A continuous freeway run doesn't account for multiple acceleration and deceleration instances where most energy is expended.

And I'm not tabulating data for future use, there probably has been EVs before that got close or met their spec range,it just feels like almost every EV review they do seems to come in well under the factory or epa estimated range, which has always been the case with gas cars to be fair, epa mpg has always been used as a selling feature even if its unachievable in the real world, I was just surprised when I read the article on the mercedes.
loeog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 914

loeog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 914

Talking about Car and Driver
7/24/2022 at 3:35 PM

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g40322167/best-electric-cars/

Car and Driver has done the most EV testing of any independent car testing company.

They tend to love the present EV cars.

On their 1000 mile test trip, the Tesla model S (407mile range) only added 40 minutes to the trip verses a gas powered car.

They openly state the new DC charging stations change charging time to minutes from hours.

Reading 5 year old magazines might not have the same info.

Car and Driver general uses public roads when they do their road test.

Edited by loeog, 2022-07-24 15:40:46
hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 859

hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 859

f150
7/24/2022 at 8:37 PM

For example in latest issue of car and driver, the f150 lightning they're testing has factory range estimate of 320 miles on the large battery as equipped but their testing with an empty truck netted them 230 miles making for a loss of nearly 30%.

FTL also ran into that when they did their towing comparisons, the computer calculated a range based on the data entered including trailer length, weight, etc then real world range dropped by half of that once they started rolling.

I'm not sure what the average new gas car mpg percentage loss is compared to the window sticker, but I don't think its anywhere near 30%, hyundai got sued by owners when their mpg rating were off by 30% or so, I'm surprised we don't hear anything about the wild claims when it comes to EV's, I suppose people are willing to give them leeway as they are still new tech, yet manufacturers have no qualms with knowingly using false range claims to sell more of them.

And then there's the cold and its loss of up to 50% of range, I'd be curious to hear about local peoples experience driving and charging in the winter, did the cold make much of an impact on your overnight charge times or the percentage it charged overall, was it charged in a sheltered garage or out in the elements ?
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Tests
7/25/2022 at 12:53 PM

Definitely the more tests the better to get a wider idea of capabilities versus individual outlier situations. Whether EVs or otherwise, these polarized debates seem to often be a tug-o-war between taking one cherry-picked worst-case scenario and trying to imply that its the norm versus trying to establish what's more typical.
From what I can tell the "up to 50%" sounds like it's more of that extreme example to make a point, but does look like 20-30% is realistic for winter range loss... emphasis on vehicles equipped with heat pumps:
https://insideevs.com/news/574451/ev-range-test-20-percent-drop-winter/

The other segment that really has my attention in the shorter term until charger systems are further built out are PHEVs... especially at the Rav4/Escape/Tucson/Sorrento level. Enough pure electric capability to handle within-city driving on a daily basis (grocery/school/work runs) with overnight re-charges... falling back on the hybrid system for longer range trips.
loeog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 914

loeog
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 914

610km per charge - 18 minutes to 80%
7/26/2022 at 8:09 PM

See attached image.
The newest Ionic looks incredible.