Discussions

Well I tried. Two years and one budget I said. Give the man a chance.  
 
It amazes me how many ways this guy can spend. Spend six ways on one subject.  
 
Now he has a 3 billion fund for ?? as part of his spending coin. Up front slush fund??  
 
If only he sent a guide post towards less spending. Close to no deficit. But No nada and zip. A endless supply of cheques he has and keeps spending more coin than we give him.  
 
Ok I guess until interest rates go up.  
 
Thoughts?

What specific expenditures do you feel are excessive? What number would you rather see spent on those expentitures?  
 
Did they actually say "3 billion earmarked for slush fund?"  
 
I quit paying attention to all of that stuff years ago for this very reason...Every year the budget comes out and everyone is angry about how much is being spent...yet here we are 150 years later one of the 7 richest countries on the planet..living the dream.

The 3 billion for "risk" is pretty grey. First time I saw that as a line item I think.  
 
18 plus billion is too high. The only thing that stands out so far is the coin for First Nations. The spending is not focused in my opinion. Spending is ok if spent where it needs to be. Inac needs to go.

PM has no clue of the cost of his entitlement schemes.

tlr said "PM has no clue of the cost of his entitlement schemes. "

No politician knows anything regarding money nowadays. Started since the Harper days and keeps in going and going... and it's only going to get worse!

The whole world will never forget the day Mr. Trudeau used the word "peoplekind" instead of a real word like, um, humankind.  
 
I agree, his spending BS. Can't wait until he gets voted out

Harper has a Bachelor of Arts in Economics and a Masters of Economics.  
 
Trudeau has a Bachelor of Arts in English literature and a Bachelor of Education.  
 
The misunderstanding of money started after PM Harper left office.

This is the greatest threat to democracy, and it seems to be alive and well everywhere, even on ebrandon. Sorry if this offends anyone, but educated yourselves.  
Read the link and you will see the problem. In a way economists are the ones that have gotten us into this problem.  
 
https://www.taxpayer.com/media/CoverStory24-27WEB.pdf  
 
The truth is more along the lines that there''s no such thing as conservative or liberal spending, there''s just spending.  
 
A topic like this should be something that is a concern to everyone, but the average person doesn't care anymore basically because of all the politics that get mixed in. Guess the only good thing I can say is "thank god we're not Americans", the debt they are adding, under a conservative idea is more than just terrible.  
Government growth and spending are approaching what I would call critical mass, eventually there will be no more rabbits that government can pull out of their hats.  
 
Edited by don brown, 2018-02-27 21:53:42

We need to get past this reality show crap in our politics. The majority of our politicians' time and effort seems to be directed at shots at the other side and sound bites, instead of doing what they've been sent to do. I think political parties are a thing of the past, and have no value in today's world. Am I supposed to believe what my team says, and ignore everything the others say, just because of who's saying it? I say, eliminate political parties and elect each representative (MLA, MP, etc.) as an independent, with the expectation that they'll represent their riding. Then, rate the collective body on how well they work together and effect change. Removing the reality-show crap should free up a lot of their time, I think.  
 
This budget problem is invisible to all our elected representatives, as far as I can tell, and it should be front and center. How do you do anything if you can't pay for it?

Bob George said "Harper has a Bachelor of Arts in Economics and a Masters of Economics.     Trudeau has a Bachelor of Arts in English literature and a Bachelor of Education.     The misunderstanding of money started after PM Harper left office. "

Have 156 billion reasons why that statement is beyond false. Trudeau is not doing what I wish he would but he’s doing what I thought he would.  
 
Harper was the biggest fail this country has seen. I hope it never gets out where he got his masters in economics, be the end of that school.

SandyWhite said "The whole world will never forget the day Mr. Trudeau used the word "peoplekind" instead of a real word like, um, humankind.     I agree, his spending BS. Can't wait until he gets voted out "

Right and Mr.Scheer or Mr.Singh will be any better...

depends what camp you are in.  
 
Some people have no problem with deficits and debt.  
 
Others realize a day of reckoning is inevitable.  
 
A national debt of approximately $650 billion is no joke.  
 
Interest rates will rise. Someone will have to pay the piper.  
 
http://winnipegsun.com/news/provincial/trudeaus-perpetual-deficits-will-cause-lasting-harm

Getty said "    SandyWhite said "The whole world will never forget the day Mr. Trudeau used the word "peoplekind" instead of a real word like, um, humankind.     I agree, his spending BS. Can't wait until he gets voted out " Right and Mr.Scheer or Mr.Singh will be any better... "

Mr.Scheer or Mr.Singh would be a major improvement over Trudeau. This Social experiment with Mr. Trudeau is a disaster. In truth we need a business man to run, not a politician.

We are so focused on being a Conservative or Liberal today. It's a never ending blame game. Conservatives don't like what Liberals do and Liberals don't like what Conservatives do.  
 
I consider myself neither Liberal or Conservative and will lean either way depending on the situation.

semperlaude said "depends what camp you are in.     Some people have no problem with deficits and debt.     Others realize a day of reckoning is inevitable.     A national debt of approximately $650 billion is no joke.     Interest rates will rise. Someone will have to pay the piper.     http://winnipegsun.com/news/provincial/trudeaus-perpetual-deficits-will-cause-lasting-harm "

What is it about the 650 billion specifically that has you so worried? Do you understand what that debt is? For example...do you treat you're mortgage debt the same as your credit card debt? Do you treat money owed to your brother the same as money owed to the bank?  
 
Do you believe that interest rates rise and fall based on a countries debt levels? (because they don't)  
 
What day of reckoning do you see coming, specifically? A depression, breadlines? (It isn't going to happen).  
 
You can copy paste this entire thread in 30 years and it will still be the same.

I''m glad you have a small tribe Don. A ten year old article, not relevant to the meat of yesterdays budget.  
 
Edited by tlr, 2018-02-28 09:00:37

I always thought that your credit rating affected the interest rate payable. There may be little difference between AAA and A+ depending how the comparisons are made. Here's a link regarding credit ratings and interest rates. http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/making-sense-of-provincial-debt-downgrades/  
 
However, when the provinces and the country reaches B and C ratings things will be much different. "Austerity measures" at that point will be in full swing and that would be very rough on all of us. Many think that Ottawa can just keep on printing money and all will be fine, but it's not that simple, unless your country is the USA. New Zealand went through and may still be going through austerity measures that came in for them somewhere in the late 80's and most recently the EU "PIGS", most notably Greece. Free spending as Trudeau and many provinces have been doing for much too long can and will catch up someday and the pain will be real for those left behind holding the bag. In the mean time there seems to be a lot of people in this country with their heads in the sand pretending that spending has no consequences. Reality however is that Canadians through municipal,provincial and federal debt already owe a considerable amount which is taken from our tax dollar leaving less and less for programs that we've become accustomed to expect unconditionally. The following link shows the debt level per capita in different areas of the country.  
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pbo-debt-provinces-cities-subnational-1.3656027  
 
Edited by 70`s guy, 2018-02-28 11:57:13

rum said "    Getty said "    SandyWhite said "The whole world will never forget the day Mr. Trudeau used the word "peoplekind" instead of a real word like, um, humankind.     I agree, his spending BS. Can't wait until he gets voted out " Right and Mr.Scheer or Mr.Singh will be any better... " Mr.Scheer or Mr.Singh would be a major improvement over Trudeau. This Social experiment with Mr. Trudeau is a disaster. In truth we need a business man to run, not a politician. "

They got a "businessman" to run the country just south of us. Look how that's working out for them. They are the laughingstock of the western world - and of a lot of the east as well.  
 
The only thing Harper's education in economics gave us was his ability to steal from things like the EI pool to pretend he wasn't running a deficit every single year he was PM.

JR said "    rum said "    Getty said "    SandyWhite said "The whole world will never forget the day Mr. Trudeau used the word "peoplekind" instead of a real word like, um, humankind.     I agree, his spending BS. Can't wait until he gets voted out " Right and Mr.Scheer or Mr.Singh will be any better... " Mr.Scheer or Mr.Singh would be a major improvement over Trudeau. This Social experiment with Mr. Trudeau is a disaster. In truth we need a business man to run, not a politician. " They got a "businessman" to run the country just south of us. Look how that's working out for them. They are the laughingstock of the western world - and of a lot of the east as well.     The only thing Harper's education in economics gave us was his ability to steal from things like the EI pool to pretend he wasn't running a deficit every single year he was PM. "

I think it might be misleading to suggest that "businessman" could be defined by Donald Trump's way of doing things. I think a rational,well intentioned, and ethical business person could run the United States or any other country and do a job that didn't come close to the way Trump is doing it. The man's character is more important than his profession.  
 
I don't think Trudeau's behaviour is any less laughable than Trump's, just in a different manner.  
 
I think Don brown's way of thinking is correct. Politics has become "our way is right and your way is wrong", even when they are the same thing. The party in power as well as the opposition, together, form our government, and should be working together for the betterment of our society, not grandstanding at every opportunity to show how badly the other party is performing. It's pretty hard to make positive change when you spend most of your days pointing a finger of blame at the other guy.

I agree with everyone else here!! I’m done with Trudeau! I’m about ready to vote the next scapegoat in! I’m bored with complaining about Justin! I want someone new to blame for our economy!

tlr said "I''m glad you have a small tribe Don. A ten year old article, not relevant to the meat of yesterdays budget.     Edited by tlr, 2018-02-28 09:00:37"

The math has changed dramatically in 10 years.

The reason I posted the link was to show that excessive goverent spending has been going on for a long time, because some people believe that it didn't happen until after Mr. Harper. As for the use of the word tribalism, I used it because I watch both Fox and CNN and am impress by those on both sides that put the idea of we before the idea of me.  
Everything can be looked at as a double edged sword. We have just finished up with the Winter Olympics and it seems that television didn't miss out on the opportunity of playing shows such as Cool Running, Eddie the Eagle, and even the story of Jessie Owens. If the story lines are true, it shows a tribalism which is great. It shows a respect of others, and even this year a Mexican cross country skier was respected by other skiers that finished the race 25 minutes before he finished, they assembled at the finish line to cheer him on, that's my sort of tribe.  
Back to Prime Minister Trudeau, I'm not impressed by him at all, the carbon tax pains me greatly when I realize that this passed without giving any regard to the people who live from the Great Lakes through to the west coast, might be ok for highly populated areas but there's a big stretch of the country that was ignored.  
With the loss of a Progessive Conservative party we are left with a choice of extreme right, central left and left, and with the Liberals of today trying to remain a viable party they are trying to pick up support from the left, doesn't suit me at all.  
 
Maybe off topic, but if the reference of a small tribe is in reference to family, my heritage would likely not look at it as a tribe, but a clan. A clan allows for individualism, and the acceptance of differences, while maintaining a common goal of together we succeed, divided we fall.

Watching Fox or CNN won't tell you what is going on with a liberal budget in Canada. The budget was the topic, but you never mentioned it.

As a person who tries to run a business, yes farming is a business, and try to make a living, as well as cover all expenses and try and pay my kid enough to survive on, I could pull good features from any budget presented by any government, even from the far left.  
Pinkflamingos asked why don't we discuss the deficit more than we do. Part of the reason is it means that maybe the people we voted in haven't paid attention to something I consider important, and that is accumulated debt. Am I against things presented in the budget, in general maybe not, but can we afford them, and are projections for costs and growth be accurate. We are in year 9 of a growth cycle, that alone should be a warning sign, real estate is over priced, and even though it can indicate a increase in net worth, it does not mean a person can service more debt. What happens to all forecasts if things stall out, cost of social programs like unemployment increase, putting us further in the hole, and if the downturn is cause by increased interest rates, the government allotment for borrowing increase as well.  
My concern is not just about this budget, but by budgets in general, and the lack of discipline by government to say no, maybe that's where tribalism come into play. It seems all good if it's us that borrowing, but if someone else does it it's wrong.  
When it comes down to the things I want, I have a list as long as my arm, but to survive as an individual, family or even business I have to realise that being able to service debt is critical. Should the same not apply to governments ?

I remember decades ago when the first time the Canadian Government ran a deficit. All doom and gloom was forecast within a few years. That was forty years ago.Most governments in the world today carry a deficit. The OP was about the budget not tribalism.

Read any of the explanations in this link...Government Debt isn't like Johnny Johnsons personal debt. Deficits are not like household deficits...but the numbers politicians use are meant to evoke the reactions they get from everyone knowing full well than almost no one really understands the numbers or purpose of government debt.  
 
https://www.quora.com/What-would-happen-if-the-U-S-actually-paid-off-the-national-debt-Where-would-the-banks-big-financial-institutions-and-government-foreign-and-domestic-put-their-cash

I might go back a few year before that, I want to go back to 1971. In 1971 the world left the gold standard because it was limiting growth. That's where the problem started and it was caused by central banks and politicians allowing for the printing of money to drive the economy, with an adequate amount of money in the system, and the ability to print more governments went on a spending spree. Governments adopted the idea that we don't have to worry about debt because we have the ability to control inflation and continuing inflation makes debt servicing possible.  
Since 1971 how many times have governments had to come to the rescue of economies around the world, so doom and gloom did happen, but the actual fallout from it didn't happen because of more borrowing.  
I'll agree that the world has changed, in the last year we were looking at the situation of not inflation that makes debt servicing a reality, but deflation which turns debt into an economy killer. Low interest rates or even minus rates seems to have saved us again, but a global economy makes the reality of deflation a part of the future.  
Now back to the budget, I believe that a common accepted fact of business is that in good times you pay down debt, and the economy pays for advancent of society, and example would be seeing increased wages, which is happening in a small way. Now when a government says they are going to make sure women are going to be paid equal, well I'm all for equal pay for equal work, but if you say that you want them to have higher paying positions, does it mean that if the higher paying jobs are not available, is goverenment going to create them in areas of administration or supervisory positions.  
Getting more women into the work force, once again maybe a good idea, but we have to ask is this a result of shortage of income because of a tax problem created by government. Quite often people reflect on programs that exist in Quebec, where part of the reason for encouraging family values even for a short time,are used to help increase population in the province, with thought given to not only maintaining population but a culture as well. If government is going to try and bring more women into the work force and try to influence population growth we will be looking a a great need for daycare, maybe the borrowing for that will add to the deficit it future years.

We have a sliver spoon, trust fund baby as a PM, who has absolutely zero experience or comprehension what it means to actually budget. Bank account balance has never been something he has had to consider. Want something, just go buy it. Give money away to friends? Sure, why not?  
 
The problem is Mr PM, this is OUR money now, the taxpayers, not your Daddy's. Someone needs to reign this idiot in.

MrDobalina said "    semperlaude said "depends what camp you are in.     Some people have no problem with deficits and debt.     Others realize a day of reckoning is inevitable.     A national debt of approximately $650 billion is no joke.     Interest rates will rise. Someone will have to pay the piper.     http://winnipegsun.com/news/provincial/trudeaus-perpetual-deficits-will-cause-lasting-harm " What is it about the 650 billion specifically that has you so worried? Do you understand what that debt is? For example...do you treat you're mortgage debt the same as your credit card debt? Do you treat money owed to your brother the same as money owed to the bank?     Do you believe that interest rates rise and fall based on a countries debt levels? (because they don't)     What day of reckoning do you see coming, specifically? A depression, breadlines? (It isn't going to happen).     You can copy paste this entire thread in 30 years and it will still be the same. "

concerns me how much it costs to service the debt. If I'm not mistaken, interest on the debt is the 3rd largest provincial expenditure behind health and education.  
 
I may be wrong, but I don't think we can keep going on the way we are if we expect to maintain the same governmental services.