Discussions

Airline Bailout

Muppet
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 212

Muppet
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 212

Airline Bailout
3/5/2021 at 11:14 AM

Am I the only one that is annoyed to see that the federal Government is going to spend upwards of 9 billion dollars to bailout airlines?

Why is this industry getting so much vs all the others that have come on financial hardships.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Possible bailout
3/5/2021 at 2:16 PM

Couple important distinctions as of now...
- nothing confirmed as far as a bailout with some conditions sounding like they're being negotiated
- sounds like a handout of free cash isn't whats being negotiated so much as a low interest loan (1%, repaid over 10 years). 1% definitely low, but in the context of a world where people are still signing on 1.6% mortgages...

Will see what it ends up being, but more at:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/airlines-air-canada-westjet-pandemic-covid-unifor-1.5936739
Muppet
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 212

Muppet
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 212

2008
3/6/2021 at 3:19 AM

They are selling it to the public as a loan but did they not also write off the loan to auto industry from the financial crisis of 2008.

They gave Chrysler which was bankrupt bailout money knowing they would never get any back.

Edited by Muppet, 2021-03-06 03:27:23
bigmoe
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2181

bigmoe
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2181

prediction
3/6/2021 at 9:29 AM

Here's my prediction for air travel next winter. You won't be able to afford to go anywhere. Demand will be high so prices will skyrocket. Airlines will recoup their losses.
Muppet
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 212

Muppet
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 212

Exactly
3/6/2021 at 12:38 PM

Canadian tax payers bail them out then get screwed by over priced flights. We already paid stupid dollars for flights
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
3/6/2021 at 12:42 PM

I thought that we were all supposed to be lowering our carbon footprint and flying less often anyway so why worry about it. As the carbon tax ramps up the cost of flying is only going to increase thus reducing the number of people flying.
Giddyup
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 473

Giddyup
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 473

airlines
3/6/2021 at 12:53 PM

I don’t feel too sorry for the airlines. A lot of businesses and individuals have suffered financially this past year.

I had two trips booked through West jet vacations. Both trips were cancelled by Westjet... not me... yet they kept my money. I was issued travel credits that must be used by next spring (24 months) which at the time seemed ok, but the way things are going I’m not holding out hope that I will be doing any travelling by next spring. How a business is able to keep a customers payment when they were the ones that refused to provide the service that was agreed upon is baffling to me.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Airlines
3/6/2021 at 1:36 PM

bigmoe said "Here's my prediction for air travel next winter. You won't be able to afford to go anywhere. Demand will be high so prices will skyrocket. Airlines will recoup their losses. "
Suspect you’re right. Gotta be some unknowns around cost of fuel if prices keep on the trajectory they’re on... but demand she’s gonna be strong both from carpe diem folks and those with an extra year’s unspent vacation budget!
Muppet
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 212

Muppet
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 212

?
3/6/2021 at 1:45 PM

I don’t think lowering our carbon foot print has anything to do with government bailout.
bigmoe
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2181

bigmoe
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2181

?
3/6/2021 at 1:45 PM

Farmergeorge said "I thought that we were all supposed to be lowering our carbon footprint and flying less often anyway so why worry about it. As the carbon tax ramps up the cost of flying is only going to increase thus reducing the number of people flying. "
Like most people I know I fly once a year. You want me to fly less often?
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
3/6/2021 at 3:32 PM

bigmoe said "Like most people I know I fly once a year. You want me to fly less often? "
Environmentalists would say yes you should fly less often. I personally last flew in 2006.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Yes it does
3/6/2021 at 3:45 PM

Muppet said "I don’t think lowering our carbon foot print has anything to do with government bailout. "
Have everything to do with government bail out. Perhaps Government money should only be given ( if at all) if airlines can demonstrate a clear future strategy to reduce fossil fuel use and reduce harmful emissions.
Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8881

Trevor B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8881

We
3/6/2021 at 5:19 PM

do need the airlines to get to and from many places in Canada. It's not like other countries where you can cross the country in a few hours or a day. Rail isn't really viable now. Airlines are the quickest way to get between our major cities and other world places. So if the airlines fail, we are really only left with driving ourselves. We rely on airlines more than many think.

As for carbon footprint, aircraft makers are always looking for ways to lower the carbon footprint. Todays aircraft and jet engines are far more efficient than 30 years ago.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

You’re right.
3/6/2021 at 6:40 PM

Trevor B said "do need the airlines to get to and from many places in Canada. It's not like other countries where you can cross the country in a few hours or a day. Rail isn't really viable now. Airlines are the quickest way to get between our major cities and other world places. So if the airlines fail, we are really only left with driving ourselves. We rely on airlines more than many think.

As for carbon footprint, aircraft makers are always looking for ways to lower the carbon footprint. Todays aircraft and jet engines are far more efficient than 30 years ago. "
But you also can make the same statement about modern vehicle, heavy truck and off road equipment engines being far cleaner running and more efficient then they were 30 years ago as well. If we are going to move to cleaner power sources and new technologies (and we should) then it needs to be across the board.
The reality is that we are all going to be forced to change the way we live, to consume less and to travel around less whether we drive, fly or use other means.

Edited by Farmergeorge, 2021-03-06 18:48:50
mikestang
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 463

mikestang
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 463

Air travel?
3/7/2021 at 12:47 AM

No one “needs” to travel. The last time I flew was in 2009. I didn’t need to, but I did. My life would be NO different if I hadn’t travelled.
Suck it up, traveller’s. Stop being so entitled.
axana596
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 844

axana596
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 844

Imho
3/7/2021 at 7:23 AM

Haha @ last poster. Yes, just because YOU don’t need to must mean that nobody needs to!! Good gravy.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Bailout
3/7/2021 at 11:34 AM

I think folks get that a greener future is a priority and most share that priority, but im thinking that within the wider context of what’s being discussed between gov and the airlines it’s a much broader picture at the moment.

A major item sounds like it’s refunds to passengers with cancelled flights, which I hope gets sorted out.

Some folks on a personal level might not intend to look to airlines for leisure travel, but when gov and the cos sorts this out they need to be looking at the wider economic picture and consider the effects of if one or both fail. Last I read late last year AC was looking at $14M-$16M cash burn per day which obviously can only go on for so long before something has to give.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Airlines
4/12/2021 at 10:38 PM

Air Canada deal is in...
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/feds-take-stake-in-air-canada-as-airline-taps-leeff-for-5-9b-1.1589311

WestJet issued a statement re continued discussions with the government on a safe travel restart framework, which includes re-iterating commitment to service all 42 airports serviced pre-Covid:
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2021/the-westjet-group-statement-on-government-support-announcement
For April 5-June 4 flights, Brandon to Calgary is currently listed as 1x weekly on Mondays:
https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/flights/domestic-schedule?sm_cid=social%3Aws-world%3Aschedule-changes-2021%3Atwitter%3A20210407