Discussions

Harper was pretty cozy with China and Saudi Arabia during his time in office. And now all of a sudden it's bad.

Funny how that works eh!

Yes, because the other 2 major parties are just chock full of honesty, truth and non authoritarian policies.

But the topic of this thread is the Federal Conservative party where a lot of members supported Trump in the States and cheered on the Trucker Convoy. The party membership shows a lack of maturity and no rational headspace to govern a country  
 
While I don't like any of our top 3 political parties at least Liberal and NDP supported neither.

The underlying grievance of the freedom convoy was the fundamental incompatibility brought to light between endless growth (capitalism) and forced economic regress caused by forces outside of our control (COVID/pandemic). People were scared and upset and felt threatened by it. Their grievances were real - many likely suffered very real loss. People were right to feel threatened.  
 
What wasn't real was the manifested outrage and it's execution. The very people who caused the grievances in the first place were the ones to fan the flames of anger at particular targets so as to divert it from themselves. Conservatism is highly responsible for this, but not entirely. For example, Donald Trump and his refusal to implement any actual meaningful measures until it was far too late but instead blame others. Biden refused and still refuses to do anything meaningful either. Justin Trudeau and the liberals did good by creating CERB, but it should have been paid entirely by wealthy elite, not off the backs of the working class. JT and crew were all too happy to ensure the corporations and billionaires retain their capital.  
 
For another highly topical example, US oil companies received well over $10,000,000,000 in bailouts in early 2020, and they responded by laying off over 100,000 people and pocketing the profits. Then they jacked up the oil prices in mid 2022 despite having record profits the previous two years. Yet the working class, those directly affected by this absolutely blatant price gouging, have been manipulated by the political/wealthy elite into directing their rage elsewhere: the liberals, the sjws, the millennials, the boomers, you name it. Do you see rage towards Chevron or Exxon Mobil or Shell execs? No. You see "Let's Go Brandon" and "I Did That!" anti-Biden stickers. Political / wealthy elite with sinister motives are all too happy to capitalize on the working classes grievances to instill division and targeted hatred of a specific target or group, to slowly push more and more to the extreme right. We've seen it with Trump. We see it with Bergen. We see it with Bernier. And we see it with Pierre's rhetoric. I'm fairly certain we will see more of this in general from the CPC moving forward.  
 
A true solution would have been the ability for people to have the proper means to protect themselves properly, to not have the burden of having to put themselves in danger ("Essential workers are heroes!"), to have the right to stay safe and protect themselves and their loved ones. CERB was a step in the right direction but not enough and too many strings attached. It should have been every one. It should have been all encompassing. And it should have been entirely paid for by the wealthy elite. It could have been a shining moment in humanity, when our glorious economic models allowed us to suffer through the worst of it safely. It wasn't. It was/is a colossal dumpster fire, with people taking horse pills and saying masks will kill you.  
 
Paradoxically, our rights *were* (and still are) under attack: what gives someone the right to tell someone else they must put themselves in harms way and potentially die for the economy? Where was the protest against the unsafe working conditions and demand for labor to ensure the economy didn't collapse? A "Freedom Convoy" style protest would be understandable in this context, if it had been in protest of the working conditions imposed upon us to ensure the wealthy remain so and the status quo upheld. Or, to be more clear, a strong demonstration in solidarity of the working class versus the true oppressor, the rich, who exploited throughout the crisis and allowed COVID to grow essentially unchecked. You can bet the conservatives would NOT be supporting a protest such as this, as it would be an existential threat to their establishment. We've seen them condemn other movements (Wet'suwet'en comes to mind)  
 
No doubt some will consider what I'm saying wishful thinking. I don't think it is. Billionaires could have financed the operation many times over, yet did not, for reasons not entirely clear to me other than unchecked greed. Many people say "This is the way it is" which o:bjectively is true, but what is actually being said is "Get in line, deal with it". We do not have to deal with it. It's a human problem. It has a human solution.  
 
Instead we saw people gather in droves essentially demanding the right be put in *more danger* and assume *more risk*, to their own peril. They wanted *more* of the very thing that caused the problem in the first place, just to hang on to the slightest feeling of control and safety. We saw protests steeped in mistrust and suspicion and conspiracy paralyze Ottawa for weeks, and find fertile grounds for intolerance and hatred and division: a breeding ground for fascism. That's how effective the manipulation from the right/CPC/PPC is (Heck, proof of white supremacy was asked for in this thread and it was shown: it was brushed off as wrongly interpreted!).  
 
Remember some of Umberto's tenets of fascism: an appeal to the middle class, obsession with a plot ("Its the liberals, they're coming for you! It's china! It's *whoever*!"), the idea of the everyday hero (you have to fight to save your rights! essential workers are heroes!), and of hyper nationalism (fight to save your Canadian freedom!). It's not coincidence.  
 
Edited by MotorCycleMan, 2022-07-09 20:53:11

You describe many stereotypes that are not necessarily accurate.  
. FYI Many conservative minded people openly condemned the freedom convoy protests and everything that they stood for.  
Many conservatives are not wealthy elite, are working class/ low income or smalll business owners amnd have little in common with party leadership and have somewhat differing visions of what being a conservative means.  
There are ‘wealthy elitists ‘ (some have worked very hard and become very successful as a result) as you call them from many walks of life that are highly influential or fill leading roles and positions in all major political parties and they often openly demonstrate little in common with grassroots party supporters and members or indeed the general public.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2022-07-09 21:43:06

You also described most liberals aswell.  
"Many conservatives are not wealthy elite, are working class/ low income or smalll business owners".

When I say wealthy elite, I'm not talking about conservative politicians individually. I'm talking about wealthy CEO and big corp execs who, essentially, buy votes in Canada/North America. The conservatives (and the Liberals, and the NDP) are a medium of sorts to act in between the wealthy elites and the working class. In essence, it's neoliberalism: the idea that government essentially functions to facilitate the growth of corporations through free market capitalism, privatization of commodities, and the reduction of government welfare / social spending. However, their authority and power is only limited to the institution though, as most are not uber-wealthy. True power lies in the hands of the most affluent of the nation, not the politicians. Conservatives are all to happy to assist, in order to secure power themselves.  
 
One does not become a wealthy elite through hard work. Most are born into it or inherit it. True, one can become well off by virtue of their labor, assuming good fortune and able body, and the market favors the outcome of the labor. But Jeff Bezos did not become the figure he is by virtue of his labor. He received $300,000 from his parents as startup. Elon Musk parents owned an emerald mine in apartheid South Africa. It is always exploitation of others that leaders to the uber-wealthy. Always.  
 
You may have heard the term "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism". It suggests that no matter what, under capitalism, some atrocity has taken place to allow the thing to exist. iPhones are made with minerals gathered from child labor. Nike shoes are made by slave labor. Our energy source is killing the planet. Politicians, but especially conservatives, don't generally care to challenge this. They may wring their hands and say they do, but their actions give it a free pass. They'll cut programs that benefit others to save a few bucks and proclaim "See! We're doing good!" while they actively propagate the problem that they're "trying" to fix. They'll advocate for literally anything but the actual solution at hand (Take carbon taxes, by far and away the most effective method of combatting climate change economically. The fact the Liberals implemented this is *huge*.) and instead offer lip service solutions. Admittedly, Liberals and the NDP are guilty of acting like this (though the NDP far less), but the conservatives are the MOST guilty.  
 
You're right that many conservatives (both politicians and supporters) are fellow working class citizen. Many conservatives and conservative supporters, from my experience, view themselves as temporarily not-yet-millionaires. Most never will be. Many are decent people who are simply trying to look out for themselves and others by inadvertently supporting parasitic policies thinking it's the best way forward. But I find, alarmingly moreso, that more and more are consistently at an 11 out of 10. Rationality has left them. Everything is flinch triggering. They live in a constant fear state that their life is going to change. A constant state of rage drip fed by Fox and Rebel News and the National Post and crazy Facebook rants.  
 
Most politicians don't want the average citizen knowing what's at play behind the scenes, generally speaking. Conservatives (and definitely fascists) DEFINITELY don't want them to.  
 
Every major party in Canada is beholden to the most affluent (by virtue of the neoliberal politics we find ourselves engaged in) to a certain degree. However, by virtue of their ideologies and very existence, conservatives are the most obligated to take part, believing in smaller governments and less hands on to allow corporations more power. Afterall, more corporate power / deregulation, more profits. More profits, higher GDP. Higher GDP, better the nation and it's citizens. "The freer the market, the freer the people". Since corporations generally are focused on profits and profits alone, most don't take any kind of socialist stance on measures, given it's antithetical to their very existence.  
 
All of this to say when taken to extremes, it leads national autarky (total economic independence) and fascism. An example of a modern day autarky is North Korea.  
 
Now with all this in mind, take for example the conservatives recent idea to cut the GST on fuel to save a few bucks with the spike of gas prices. I'm sure you got the mailer from our local MP. Remember, the price has skyrocketed because of the whims of wealthy elite and OPEC. The GST collected on fuel goes into a general fund, which is used by whichever federal government currently in power. Currently, the biggest single category funded by the GST collection is the old age pension fund. CPC voter base is typically the older generation, who will benefit from this the most. Conservatives are willing to hurt their constituents financial futures to secure power and save a few bucks to vilify whichever party is current in power and they can claim the moral high ground by doing so. They're just looking out for you and I, afterall ,right? Yet they would never DREAM to stand up to big fuel corps - which would be actual meaningful change - as it would be akin to shooting themselves in the foot.  
 
You can tell me I'm drawing stereotypes about conservatism, but their actions and words speak clear when you listen to their rhetoric in debates and when they campaign. Remember Eco and Nolte: the fascist appeal to social frustration, fear of difference, contempt for the weak, the rejection of modernity, the selective populism, and the cult of tradition. Played out, you get messaging like this (Paraphrased, of course):  
 
"You are indeed struggling. It's because of the carbon tax by the Liberals. And it's because of the immigrants taking your jobs, and the liberal party is allowing more to come in. And it's the social programs, sucking up your HARD EARNED money in the form of taxes to pay for drug addicts welfare support. This is the way forward? This is the modern solution? Only we, the true Canadian patriot party, have your best interests in mind. Clearly the will of the people is not being heard, we need to quash these absurd liberal and socialist ideas and go back to what works for us!"  
 
And indeed, you hear the following too:  
 
"You're poor and destitute because of the liberals' (or whomever) over reaching policies! (and not the deregulation of the industry funneling capital upwards mercilessly, due largely from right leaning policy) Taxes are making your life harder! (Despite the fact the GST was introduced by conservatives and when taxes could be taken proportionately from the elites, not the working class) Just work harder, you lazy bum! (To the person working two jobs and barely affording rent) Don't you see? Unions are holding corporations back from paying you more with their pesky *regulation*. Reagan was right, trickle down economics work! (As wages stagnate for decade upon decade without any form of intervention so as to maximize corporate profits)"  
 
It's not going to stop. Look at the dire electoral decision facing the US in 2024. The GOP is not flirting with fascism anymore, it's embracing it. And this trend isn't US specific, look at Brexit in the UK. Something will happen here eventually on this current course. Direct action is needed.  
 
Edited by MotorCycleMan, 2022-07-10 00:21:17

You know and understand little of Brexit. That cannot be used as a comparison to North American politics. I do understand as I’m from the UK. Brexit is an inevitable and necessary outcome that has been simmering for over 40 years in the UK. Many promises and expectations were broken since the UK, historically an independent nation voted initially to join the European Union on the pretext of joining a freely trading bloc with no trade barriers. That was never achieved, major concessions were made towards Europe as well as huge sums of money paid into it and that is why the majority of people in the UK voted to leave the European Union. Around 15 years of short term pain will now affect business and people in the UK while new trading partners and opportunities are forged until such time as the UK economy rebuilds its independent strength and surges past the weaknesses of the Euro zone and its overburdened and outdated leadership.  
Mark my words, the European Union does not fulfil its initial mandate at formation and its power extends far beyond that which was originally intended at foundation. In time it will collapse and revert back into independent nations without true, meaningful and major reform.  
As for the Canadian conservative proposal to reduce GST on fuel. I personally replied to mentioned local conservative MP and told him that such proposals were out of touch and clearly not moving on the correct path to reducing vehicle usage, reducing fuel usage reducing emissions and moving towards alternative fuel and greener power sources.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2022-07-10 00:54:30

As an immigrant to Canada I can tell you that we need to be careful.  
In Canada our expectations and aspirations are high, our standard of living is comparatively good, our freedoms are many and compared to other countries we are burdened less by government and legislation. Personal opportunities in education, work , housing, building of careers and personal advancement are very good.  
Internationally Canada is revered and generally well trusted as a partner on the world stage and its people are well respected. This is considered generally an excellent place to do business and goes some way to why many people and businesses have relocated here.  
We must be careful to protect these important advantages as we continue to drive our important, modern and relatively speaking clean economy forwards and continue to attract investment and immigration into this great country.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2022-07-10 01:30:01