Discussions

I think it's just awful, and I think it's just as awful that nobody seems to care. Id like to see it taught truthfully in schools and I do hope it opens the eyes of those who continually say "get over it", but I'm not holding my breath.

This is a polarizing and emotional topic and is likely a no win situation. I am not critical of Ebrandon but, I think, it could be tough to discuss this topic on this forum and have it go anywhere except downhill.  
 
Edited by CommonTater, 2015-06-04 11:51:22

It could potentially go down hill. It might not.  
 
I am hoping that those who have been defensive in the past might now be willing to say, "I never really knew the extent." And be reassured there is no dollar amount attached to the question, "What can we do?"  
 
The most that past critics can do today is to just listen . . .

It's a lengthy document. I haven't read it yet and it'll have to wait until I can really sit down and put in the time to read it.

Just by your starting this discussion with that comment, you will scare people off. I for one am going to take a pass on this topic, I just feel if I have any sort of opinion it will be torn apart.

It wasn't meant in instigation... I just found it odd that the report was released two days ago and it is all over the news.... Yet, not even a whisper mention of it here. Neither here nor there for that comment.

I haven't read the full report but have gotten the highlights. I feel it is unlikely this report will change anyone's perception dramatically one way or the other unless they are completely ignorant of the residential schools.  
 
 
 
Edited by CommonTater, 2015-06-04 14:36:19

That's basically what the schools have done is culturally destroy a race.  
 
Now Natives have major problems to deal with, but those problems are also turning non natives against them.  
 
Reserves need to be abolished, compensate them for it and build programs designed to help them get back on their feet and restore their culture.  
 
Native leaders need to step up even more to have any hope of fixing these major problems.

I was under the understanding that this issue was addressed some years back.I was under the impression that the students and even some of thier sibblings were compinsated with montetary claims and the Canadain goverment appoligized for the injustice.What more can be said or done.Perhaps it is time to move on and cocentrate on other important issues.Just my opion or am I wrong.

Throwing money at a burning house won't rebuild it.

Soul.....  
What is this going to solve if everything was given of what was asked? Will this solve the problems then? There have been payouts to residential survivors, a formal apology, tons of money spent. It seems that almost every second line in that document is provide funding. My question is with all the mismanaged funding currently going on what is more money going to do? The world is evolving at an amazing rate. What I see is the aboriginal people want traditional and everyone to pay for it....yet the real world evolves at a rate where things used to be. How many aboriginal languages are there? Looking online there were over 60 aboriginal languages reported in 2011. How is one to teach that in the school system? Is it condensed into one language taught to everyone? Or would that cause tension between aboriginals? I think a big thing is how can we as society help aboriginal people keep up with the fast paces of society? There has to be a melting of cultures. I think a huge problem is that the finger has been pointed so long in one direction it just makes it too easy to keep doing it rather than start looking in the mirror and asking "What am I doing to help?"

Its an ugly chapter in our history. Civilization, and society can never fix the damage done in this chapter, all we can do is learn from it. Sure its easy for me to sit here and say its in the past, but seriously to think some monetary compensation to the victims helps or changes things disgusts me even more.  
I actually met a man and his family that was a resident of one of these schools. He was a shell of a man, insecure, uneducated, and very quiet. I met him when I drove taxi. Then all of the sudden out of the blue, he was taking cabs and his family everywhere. day after day after day, 2, 3 ,4 times a day. Weeks went by, shopping, eating out. Then I learn he had received a substantial monetary reward from the government. within a few short months , his money was gone, his family unit had crumbled, His youngest 2 were pulled from the home. He passed away. And I watched the oldest daughter slip into a world of desperation on the streets hanging with her peers.  
Money isn't the solution. Its going to take a ton of money and even more people who want to help. Most don't care though, I'm just guessing

The final report is supposedly 2 million words.  
 
Action of one type of another is needed. Yet there has been over forty reports of one type or another dealing with first Nations concerns.  
 
Little in these reports has been acted on for one reason or another. Now no finger pointing here as this inaction has many reasons. Most from the Feds. Lots from first nations or some members and or groups supposedly speaking for them.  
 
Since I also have not read it all, I refuse to comment. Except little will or can be done until after the election. Any promises by any Party leader in the next few weeks around this issue is in my opinion a knee jerk reaction.  
 
It is time to get the real leaders on both sides together here. The grass roots on the first Nations side needs to also be at the table. Too many times they have been ignored by their own leaders.  
 
 
 

There are no quick solutions. The problems didn't happen overnight, and there will be no quick fix. I am an educator in MB, and I think mandatory education (based on the excellent work that the Treaty Commission is creating) is a start. It will take years to repair the damage, but that does not mean that we should not start somewhere, and educating ALL of our young people about BOTH sides of the story is a start. A good start. It may be too late to change the minds of some of the racists and to change some redneck mentalities.

Doug said "The final report is supposedly 2 million words.     Action of one type of another is needed. Yet there has been over forty reports of one type or another dealing with first Nations concerns.     Little in these reports has been acted on for one reason or another. Now no finger pointing here as this inaction has many reasons. Most from the Feds. Lots from first nations or some members and or groups supposedly speaking for them.     Since I also have not read it all, I refuse to comment. Except little will or can be done until after the election. Any promises by any Party leader in the next few weeks around this issue is in my opinion a knee jerk reaction.     It is time to get the real leaders on both sides together here. The grass roots on the first Nations side needs to also be at the table. Too many times they have been ignored by their own leaders.         "

The missing link is action. I bet if we got the government and the AFN together to mutually agree on a deal worth over a billion dollars to education for First Nations people, that would be the catalyst to unbridled cooperation.  
 
Nope - tried that. What else can we try?

I'm just wondering what treaty natives really want in regards to this report.I would like to hear a treaty natives opinion.The government has apologized and compensated the people.If this is unsatisfactory what do they really want.Would like some feedback on this from a treaty person.

Throwing money at a burning house wont rebuild it but it will build a new house.

JustanotherNobody said " Its an ugly chapter in our history. Civilization, and society can never fix the damage done in this chapter, all we can do is learn from it. Sure its easy for me to sit here and say its in the past, but seriously to think some monetary compensation to the victims helps or changes things disgusts me even more.   I actually met a man and his family that was a resident of one of these schools. He was a shell of a man, insecure, uneducated, and very quiet. I met him when I drove taxi. Then all of the sudden out of the blue, he was taking cabs and his family everywhere. day after day after day, 2, 3 ,4 times a day. Weeks went by, shopping, eating out. Then I learn he had received a substantial monetary reward from the government. within a few short months , his money was gone, his family unit had crumbled, His youngest 2 were pulled from the home. He passed away. And I watched the oldest daughter slip into a world of desperation on the streets hanging with her peers.   Money isn't the solution. Its going to take a ton of money and even more people who want to help. Most don't care though, I'm just guessing "

I worked with a man who went to the residential school in Birtle.He told many stories that had happened to him and his classmates.He had told me that it was the best thing that ever happened to him.He came from Nelson house in Northern Manitoba.He had told me that even though it was hard being away from his family,he got an education,learned to speak English and earned money working for farmers in the area.He also, to his knowledge told me that there was no abuse in that particular school.He still speaks Cree and has not lost any of his culture due to going to a residential school.So I'm guessing not all natives were abused and not all schools were bad for them.He seemed to be thankful for the experience.I am still friends with him and glad he told about his experience in the school.

saddletramp said "    JustanotherNobody said " Its an ugly chapter in our history. Civilization, and society can never fix the damage done in this chapter, all we can do is learn from it. Sure its easy for me to sit here and say its in the past, but seriously to think some monetary compensation to the victims helps or changes things disgusts me even more.   I actually met a man and his family that was a resident of one of these schools. He was a shell of a man, insecure, uneducated, and very quiet. I met him when I drove taxi. Then all of the sudden out of the blue, he was taking cabs and his family everywhere. day after day after day, 2, 3 ,4 times a day. Weeks went by, shopping, eating out. Then I learn he had received a substantial monetary reward from the government. within a few short months , his money was gone, his family unit had crumbled, His youngest 2 were pulled from the home. He passed away. And I watched the oldest daughter slip into a world of desperation on the streets hanging with her peers.   Money isn't the solution. Its going to take a ton of money and even more people who want to help. Most don't care though, I'm just guessing " I worked with a man who went to the residential school in Birtle.He told many stories that had happened to him and his classmates.He had told me that it was the best thing that ever happened to him.He came from Nelson house in Northern Manitoba.He had told me that even though it was hard being away from his family,he got an education,learned to speak English and earned money working for farmers in the area.He also, to his knowledge told me that there was no abuse in that particular school.He still speaks Cree and has not lost any of his culture due to going to a residential school.So I'm guessing not all natives were abused and not all schools were bad for them.He seemed to be thankful for the experience.I am still friends with him and glad he told about his experience in the school. "

that's awesome

So, what role does the "church" play in this, seeing as how they are the abusers? The Pope apologize yet? Didn't think so.

JustanotherNobody said "    saddletramp said "    JustanotherNobody said " Its an ugly chapter in our history. Civilization, and society can never fix the damage done in this chapter, all we can do is learn from it. Sure its easy for me to sit here and say its in the past, but seriously to think some monetary compensation to the victims helps or changes things disgusts me even more.   I actually met a man and his family that was a resident of one of these schools. He was a shell of a man, insecure, uneducated, and very quiet. I met him when I drove taxi. Then all of the sudden out of the blue, he was taking cabs and his family everywhere. day after day after day, 2, 3 ,4 times a day. Weeks went by, shopping, eating out. Then I learn he had received a substantial monetary reward from the government. within a few short months , his money was gone, his family unit had crumbled, His youngest 2 were pulled from the home. He passed away. And I watched the oldest daughter slip into a world of desperation on the streets hanging with her peers.   Money isn't the solution. Its going to take a ton of money and even more people who want to help. Most don't care though, I'm just guessing " I worked with a man who went to the residential school in Birtle.He told many stories that had happened to him and his classmates.He had told me that it was the best thing that ever happened to him.He came from Nelson house in Northern Manitoba.He had told me that even though it was hard being away from his family,he got an education,learned to speak English and earned money working for farmers in the area.He also, to his knowledge told me that there was no abuse in that particular school.He still speaks Cree and has not lost any of his culture due to going to a residential school.So I'm guessing not all natives were abused and not all schools were bad for them.He seemed to be thankful for the experience.I am still friends with him and glad he told about his experience in the school. " that's awesome "

I know many people who have gone to the same school in Birtle, and I have heard their genuine stories of abuse. Yes not all children were abused, but if there is one thing that is known for sure abusers know how to pick out the children they know that they can abuse. Most sexual abuse most likely did not happen in a public setting. So there is no certainty that your friend would have known for sure the level of abuse that happened. Your friend just happen to be one of the few lucky ones that did not experience abuse.

Nemesisngr said "So, what role does the "church" play in this, seeing as how they are the abusers? The Pope apologize yet? Didn't think so. "

it would be the current one, he has a kind soul. But I won't hold my breath on that happening!

In my heart. I have apologized for my former faith' s involvement and for the collective apathy most non native Canadians experience. I believe that the pope or at least the hierarchy of the RC church in Canada should make a formal apology. Children in Canada should be taught about all of the acts that canada has perpetrated whether it is Residential Schools or some of the camps during WW 2.  
 
On the news today I heard that the Indian Affairs Dept,over the last 5 years has not used 1 billion dollars of funds allocated to them for social services. Is this the problem of the government? Or is it a lack of self management?  
 
Another point of discussion....currently in the foster care program there are a ridiculously high % of aboriginal children is there a lot of difference between the 2 flawed systems. Foster care or Residential Schools? Is foster care the 21st century's New idea to deal with social issues.  
 
No I am not bashing the system. There are many wonderful foster parents but many children coming through that system do not thrive.

I don't think anyone here will disagree that the residential schools were awful but people have to be the change they want to see. You can't blame this on all the problems. Most reserves are run poorly and many of the houses are in a sad state because they aren't taken care of.  
We have to enable people in a positive way and throwing money at this issue has proven to do nothing.  
We need programs that encourage people to get off the reverses and do something that makes their lives and their families lives better.  

I am a firm believer that education is the major problem. FASD is running rampant, youth are uneducated towards family planning and lack stability in their existing families. Perhaps we should look at funding a program that would allow indigenous youth to be able to remove themselves from those types of toxic situations and be able to empower themselves to get a proper education away from the distractions of reservation life. We could set up proper schools where all of their needs would be provided much like private schools all over the world where they could live while they got their education. They could take up residency at the school like every major university in north america where they would be free to interact with their own people while attending classes. It wouldn't operate like a regular university so we could call it something different. How about a residential school.....  
 
Oh wait, we tried that. I guess throwing more money at them is the clear solution here.

CommonTater said "    Doug said "The final report is supposedly 2 million words.     Action of one type of another is needed. Yet there has been over forty reports of one type or another dealing with first Nations concerns.     Little in these reports has been acted on for one reason or another. Now no finger pointing here as this inaction has many reasons. Most from the Feds. Lots from first nations or some members and or groups supposedly speaking for them.     Since I also have not read it all, I refuse to comment. Except little will or can be done until after the election. Any promises by any Party leader in the next few weeks around this issue is in my opinion a knee jerk reaction.     It is time to get the real leaders on both sides together here. The grass roots on the first Nations side needs to also be at the table. Too many times they have been ignored by their own leaders.         " The missing link is action. I bet if we got the government and the AFN together to mutually agree on a deal worth over a billion dollars to education for First Nations people, that would be the catalyst to unbridled cooperation.     Nope - tried that. What else can we try? "

That is a missing link.  
 
See what happened when the AFN and the Feds agreed to what I saw as a positive move on education!  
 
Alto had to resign. I also note Alto had lots of support but not enough.  
 
The AFN also is not the only party that wants at the table.  
 
It is tough. Cripes at times it seems we can not get our premiers to agree on the time of day. The AFN is a house divided.  
 
The Feds one on one negotiations so far are about the only thing that has made progress and that is sad.  
 
Even idle no more has lost steam.