Discussions

compost it.

http://www.allaboutbags.ca/  
Ok. I understand you want to present city council a petition to ban single use plastic bags. Call me on it but I would presume they would ask you then what you proceed to be a viable alternative instead. Now I am sure an answer of “I guess we are not on the same page.” wouldn’t get you too far. I ask the question only to see what options you suggest that are greener than our current situation. I understand you mention some places with bans, there have been more but they have rescinded their decision as it wasn’t working for them. Now I take with a grain of salt the information on the website I mentioned as it is brought to you by the plastics association. But it does make the truth of a lot of what they say. I have Googled points they make and they do hold truth. Such comments of it taking more energy to produce paper bags vs plastic holds true on everything I read. Funny how back in the 70’s brown bags were thought to be the cause of deforestation thus introducing the plastic bag as an alternative. Here we are 30 years later saying the plastic bag isn’t viable anymore. Canadians actually do a good job of recycling bags where they can. Like most you will see them in the bathroom garbage’s at home, used in garage sales, dog poop, and lunch container for the day, etc. The carbon footprint of a recycle bag is much higher than single use bags, especially when you get into the cotton bags. Why are we increasing our carbon footprint? The technology exists to turn the bags into fuel, why are we not investing in this technology instead of burning off the gas used for bags in the natural gas process. We will be dealing with a larger influx of brown bags creating more garbage.

As I have stated in other posts before yours there are plenty of options for garbage whether it be compostable, biodegradable, and paper(we’ve even used the odd chip or potato bag to fill with our garbage). However as I have stated again and again, this is not a ban against garbage bags this is a ban against plastic checkout bags. And that is why I had stated “I guess we are not on the same page” there is no debating with someone that keeps on bringing up the same thing when the question has already answered and they still disagree, I don’t think I can elaborate any further on here about that. I will likely be suggesting those options to council, if they ask, however it will likely be up to them and the environmental committee to decide and not myself. As I have stated, the problem with plastics is they do not biodegrade, unlike paper(micro plastics will always be around for our lifetime) and— as I have said cannot be recycled currently in a sustainable way. Please don’t forget there is more than just cutting down trees as an option for paper(hemp, recycled paper etc) so the process may be different depending on what a company chooses. Also the volume of reusable bags made and used compared to plastic would be much less compared to disposable checkout bags so it would pay off— think about the reusable bags a lot of people already have at home to use as well(these could also be made out of different materials as well, recycled, etc depending on what a person purchases) And Like I said, above all else reusable would be ideal, we do have miles to go but it’s a start.  
Did you know one person using reusable bags in their lifetime would take 22000 plastic bags from their environment? As well as the average reusable bag has a lifespan to that of 700 disposable plastic bags.  
And I’m not sure what Manitoban towns you are talking about that have changed their rules again? I have relatives up north and as far as they have said the rules are still the same, I agree it could be all in how it is implemented, however none in Manitoba that I know of have met a bad fate.  
 
https://www.reusethisbag.com/articles/plastic-bag-bans-worldwide/  
https://sustainability.ncsu.edu/blog/changeyourstate/why-reusable-bags-are-better-than-plastic/

you start the business

This point is simply touching on the idea of using paper bags and is not related to any of the other issues, concerns or suggestions. The main reason people give for the use of paper bags is that they can degrade more rapidly than the alternatives. This is absolutely true.  
 
However, it has not been so long since the environmentalists called for a ban on paper bags because we needed to save the trees. Society introduced more plastic as a response to public outcry. The result was a negative one. Now we have a public outcry against plastic. Why would we replace it with something that previously caused a public outcry? Are we not capable of learning from the past?

If anything, that just showcases how short-sighted societies are. Paper bags made from virgin fibres IS a problem due to old growth forests also not being nearly regenerative enough to cover our paper needs.  
 
Plastics were a seemingly good alternative, but not without drawbacks as well.  
 
This can work. For example, Hemp paper bags.  
I would have loved for a certain store in this city to have gone THAT route instead of bulk purchasing the obviously cheaper grey plastic bags (which are in plentiful supply thanks to Canada's biggest box store) and decorating them with greenwashing nonsense.  
We will recycle this for you!  
 
You mean, like the Canadian (and others from other national origins) grocery bags found dumped in Malaysia? Which were "recycled" to the highest bidder, which turned out to be an illegal trader?  
 
Have some imagination, people.  
 
Or alternatively, get used to it . Much like the debate about the auto bins back in the day, we seem to have moved on from that. As such, I give it 2 or 3 years.

Brandon population is about 49,000 so 800 signatures is  
 
.016 % of the population and that isn't even looking at the whole market Brandon services from the rural areas around it.

So what do we propose when we've progressed from paper and plastic to polypropylene bags - and society starts treating the PP as single use.. IE forgot one, buy another. The carbon footprint of the PP bag is upto 13x greater than a single use plastic bag, this truly only works if people are dedicated to using them. Who out there is taking a reusable bag to Marks or La Vie en Rose to make an impact at the retail stores - this shouldn't just apply to grocery stores. Why aren't we making an argue to ban GARBAGE bags below a certain size and volume to increase the masses to re purpose of grocery bags. Garbage bags are truly only a SINGLE use bag.  
 
Just a couple of cents.  
 
A few links below;  
 
https://terngoods.com/blogs/learn/reusable-vs-disposable-bags-whats-better-for-the-environment  
 
https://phys.org/news/2018-08-reuse-bags.html  
 
https://stanfordmag.org/contents/paper-plastic-or-reusable  
 
“We have recently switched to packing food in… paper… when we have groceries in plastic bags. Sorry! Away from plastic towards paper like bag sort of things,” replied the Prime Minister

First I’d like to say that I support a ban on plastic grocery bags. Although I always have good intentions I usually forget the tote bags in my car and my groceries end up in multitudes of plastic bags. Yes, we use a few of them for other things but most go into the garbage. If the bags were not available I’d learn quite quickly to use my totes. I hate filling up my large garbage bags with....bags. Without grocery bags and other excessive packaging our garbage bag usage would drop a lot. We compost vegetable matter and who can afford to throw out meat?  
 
I’m old enough to remember when paper bags were the norm. They never went to waste. We wrapped packages in them (to mail), coloured on them, made jackets for school books, used them in the bottoms of baking pans (there was no parchment).  
 
Come to think of it not much went to waste. There were no dollar stores with cheap plastic disposable toys. Furniture lasted for more than 1 generation. Things were repaired not replaced. “ Use it up, wear it out, make it do” .  
 
If we are worried about the environment, and I am, we have to stop buying crap. Or at least try to limit it to 2nd hand crap to slow production. And take your crap to 2nd hand stores...it may get another life and some charity can make a bit of money. Anything we keep out of the landfills will help.  
 
I really believe that eliminating waste will do a lot more good for the earth than griping about cows farting.

Just further to this for folks that hadn't caught at Monday's council meeting, the council voted that the city should begin the process by the end of April to put a ban in place for January 1, 2021 should the Province have not acted by that time on a ban that it looks to be exploring:  
https://ebrandon.ca/buzzpost.aspx?buzz_id=642

I've been here previous, but time for some new thoughts.  
 
Someone earlier commented about the switch from paper to plastic on account of saving the trees. And now we are again looking for something else because as it turns out, plastic isn't as benign as we thought it was. When will we learn, they say.  
 
First off, there are good reasons for both switches. Consider the CFC / HFC conundrum.  
 
Back in the day, freon and otherwise CFC's were a staple of both refrigeration and propellants because of their inherently stable nature. Unfortunately, so stable were the bonds that chorine that would otherwise never get so high into the atmosphere did. The solar radiation broke the chemical bond (releasing the chorine), and the chorine went to town on the Ozone. Particularly in the antarctic on account to high-level spring cloud cover. Water attracts chorine if memory serves.  
 
Which was why all(?) propellents now have propane or something similar. Flammable, but ozone neutral. And refrigeration resorted to HFC's.  
 
Fast forward 20 or so years from the Montreal Protocol, and we arrive in the now. As it turns out, HFC's are an extremely potent greenhouse gas when released into the environment. And so it's back to the drawing board again.  
 
What is the new option? Likely a more flammable alternative (if a couple of newer bar fridges I saw recently are any indication). Better? I suppose it depends on how you look at it.  
 
Plastic is the new PCB. Actually, plastic is more akin to the new CFC. It has found its way quite literally EVERYWHERE. Whilst it's not messing with the atmosphere, it's a direct health hazard to us. Since it's an bioaccumulate of pollutants AND it often looks like food to creatures not us, it's a concern.  
 
Living without plastic grocery bags is an annoyance. But having finally ridden myself of them, it can be done.  
 
My big problem at the moment is trash. I find myself needing to buy 3 different sizes for different purposes. One of those is hard to adjust (cat litter). However, much of the other junk is plastic and organics.  
I generate quite a bit of plastic trash on account to not recycling any of it (since I don't know if it's going to end up dumped somewhere down the line). But even taking those into consideration, there is a lot of plastic stuff that isn't recyclable here PERIOD. Like everything that is sold in foam packaging.  
 
Bags are a good start. And maybe I as a consumer ought to be more careful.  
 
Or alternatively, why don't we start making producers more liable for the endless junk plastic they unleash into the marketplace?  
Why do consumers pay for recycling programs for materials they can't help generating?

With the ban of single use plastic. How are we going to put out kitchen trash in the garbage? I'm sure its unsanitary just to dump whatever in the black bin.  
 
Not sure if the city has come up with ideas with this matter?  
 
Please dont say put it in the green bin, green bin program in the city of brandon is a complete joke. There are more rules what cannot go into it vs what can. Thats why most people use it just for yard waste, and thats why the program ends in Oct/Nov.

I am total for a better environment In anyway, we as citizens can make the world a better place. But, I work in a business that doesn't recycle anything. We throw out cardboard by the pound everyday in the trash,plastic wrap that would reach around the world 50xor more a year. Plastic bottles and cans too. I can go on and on, everything is going to the city of brandon landfill, nothing goes to the recycling depot because the plastics cannot be recycled. Almost every workplace and business waste in this country more garbage than all the residences in this country, and we are worried about plastic bags. Yes, it is a step in the right direction but just go to any grocery store in the city and let me know how much waste they have in any given day. We need to recycle alot more not just plastic bottles,banning plastic bags,cardboard etc.  
The products on the shelves in any store come packed on a pallet with plastic wrap, the products wrap is probably not recyclable,the pallet the product is on, either gets reused or thrown out and guaranteed it will end in the landfill somewhere.  
Banning plastic bags is no where near going to solve the issue facing landfills. Business and product manufacture's need to step up and make products more recyclable. Also, businesses have to simply recycle what they can but do not because of cost. The dollar is what drives business and it costs the businesses money for a recycling bin. In conclusion, nothing will change much at all. The world needs to be on board and good luck with that.

Jan 1, 2021 the ban will go into effect. Guess I better start stock piling bags now....

I sew bags and have purchased reusable bags but I would be totally cool bringing back paper bags for people who forget bags!

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4711?fbclid=IwAR3vi2R6aSnlgX7dzUTUUXo_T4WDjtbF3P00fVmEfzSspAbaHfxXGLeRtB8

I listened to that podcast when it came out and was surprised by the conclusion.