Discussions

PrimeConvoy said "Yesterday I drove from Brandon to regina....the gas prices were pretty consistent the whole way...if there is gouging, it’s happening everywhere. And my sister from BC laughed at me, saying they’re paying just under a $1.40 in Chilliwack... "

You can't compare Brandon prices to Regina, or to Chiliwack. These cities are located in different provinces and are subject to differences in price depending on the PROVINCIAL TAXES charged on gasoline. These cities are located in different provinces. Brandon is always charged higher than other cities/communities within MANITOBA. That is the reason why Brandon people are always so upset. We are all subject to the same taxes, but the often 10 cent difference at the pump has to do with the retailers and price gouging.

Let's get the expert on this eBrandon forum to explain these price differences. There is nobody more qualified to explain what is going on than our Federal Member of Parliament Larry Maguire. Or, you can give his office a call at 204-726-7600 and tell him that his input has been requested on eBrandon to explain what exactly is going on, and why the Competition Bureau isn't addressing this situation considering a number of people from Brandon have already submitted to their office these complaints.

"but the often 10 cent difference at the pump has to do with the retailers and price gouging."  
What exactly are you basing this statement on? Where is your information regarding who is really setting local retail prices coming from?  
 
Many years ago I was involved with an oil company, as well, I had a number of friends that were involved with oil companies, both as people running gas stations as well as people that were oil company area reps. In those days the people operating the gas stations (major brands) had no say in what the pump prices would read. The people running off brand stations were a little less under the thumb of major oil companies, but their prices were kept in line by what the oil companies charged them for gas. The area reps were told by their higher ups what the local prices would be set at. Personal experience showed me that it was worth ones job not to comply.  
 
Things may well be different today, but I'm having a hard time believing that the Brandon area retailers are all greedy, gouging, money hungry opportunists, and the retailers in other parts of Manitoba are not. To me, it smacks of higher level price setting (fixing) that is, for whatever reasons, not on the agenda of the Competition Bureau.  
 
As I said, it's been a long time since I've been involved with an oil company in any way, but if I was betting, I'd be betting it's still the way it was years ago.

Brandon is not the only one getting screwed, Minnedosa and Neepawa prices go up the moment Brandon does.  
It does seem very bah humbug for them to do it just before Xmas and at the beginning of a cold snap when we will use more fuel to warm up the car before heading out.  
Funny, Heritage Co-op (headquarters in Minnedosa) are always bragging about how much they do for their members. Maybe just once they could show leadership and refrain from jumping on the money bandwagon.

OK Fargo Bob. Let's get Larry Maguire to get the Competition Bureau on this to find out why - as you say - the higher ups are fixing the price of our gas. Give Larry Maguire a phone call and demand that his office get on this. I provided the number for his office in my previous post.  
 
You called it. If it's not Brandon retailers, then let's find out whose behind this price fixing. Surely, the Federal Government should have oversight, and it would be a shame for the Competition Bureau to provide the Oil and Gas companies immunity like they just did with Loblaws, when we all know the system is rigged.  
 
Get on it!!!

If Loblaws is getting sued for 1 BILLION dollars over the cost of bread, then surely the oil and gas sector can get sued for much, much more when it deals with a 10 cent discrepancy in the price of a litre of fuel!!!

The Brandon area businesses could do alot with a BILLION dollars of extra consumer disposable income.

Manitoba and Brandon get cheap gas.  
According to Gas buddy, we might be the cheapest place in Canada.  
 
http://www.gasbuddy.com/CAN

Gas is 8 cents cheaper at Swan River then Brandon when I filled up there up there at lunch.

At times we all go after someone because we think we are being treated poorly, but my only concern about gas prices would be the difference in prices between Brandon and Winnipeg when there are are noticeable differences for an extended period of time.  
Oil companies might be the big bad threat that we think they are or maybe not. It is true that if you look across the country their is a large difference in prices, always has been. If there is an idea of collusion I would think it centres around how much can be taken out of any local economy. Large metropolitan areas usually have a higher pay structure, and usually shorter commute distances, and I believe this leads to higher prices in those areas.  
It isn''t hard to research the median income for any area, which might be the reason for lower prices here in Manitoba. With the exception of the boom in the oil industry many areas are not that well off, but if the prices are set for the area using Brandon''s median income it might account for prices being similarity high in surrounding areas.  
So maybe in a way, collusion might not be that bad, that is until we get to the point of having higher prices in a local area for an extended period of time.  
If we are to believe that prices are set by the major companies, for a given area, which at times it appears to be, then market share still does matter in a given area, every one pays more and everyone pays less, and market share remains the same.  
Guess with all my yapping I''m trying to say that if market share is important then an area boycott would give us similar prices to Winnipeg, because as we see when one drops, the rest follow to retain market share.  
I don''t think anyone is asking for anything more than to be treated fairly.  
 
Edited by don brown, 2017-12-23 17:20:52

North of swan river

I don't think you realize that Boissevain, Virden, Carberry are our market area and their gas is usually cheaper. Why is it that all the prices in Brandon go up at the same time if they aren't all in cahoots on gas pricing. You can drive pretty much any direction you want from Brandon and the gas will be cheaper. What if they put their prices up to the same as Brandons does that mean their market won't bare it and everyone will die????

GWS said "I don't think you realize that Boissevain, Virden, Carberry are our market area and their gas is usually cheaper. Why is it that all the prices in Brandon go up at the same time if they aren't all in cahoots on gas pricing. You can drive pretty much any direction you want from Brandon and the gas will be cheaper. What if they put their prices up to the same as Brandons does that mean their market won't bare it and everyone will die???? "

The price of gas in Boissevain changes pretty much the same time as the price change in Brandon, it is usually 1 cent more than Brandon. I can't speak for other communities.

I drove through Boissevain the other day, and gas was about 7 cents cheaper than when I filled up in Brandon that same day.

Brandon-Souris Member of Parliament Larry Maguire has been summoned to provide a response on eBrandon concerning the discrepancies in fuel prices between Brandon and the surrounding area. Again, the Competition Bureau is under federal mandate as is Oil and Gas. Larry Maguire has a professional responsibility to address this and provide a suitable response on this forum to the citizens he purports to represent. Give Larry Maguire's office a call and let him know his formal response has been requested on this eBrandon forum.

Would only find some way to blame it on the opposition, that's what he does no matter what the issue.

Let's give Larry Maguire a chance. He is the MP for Brandon-Souris. It's a local issue. Let's all give him the opportunity to see if he will agree to use his powers as an MP to REPRESENT the local issues that people complain about in his constituency. Mr. Maguire ... please provide a response. And the people of Brandon can call his office at 204-726-7600 to let him know his responsibility to provide a written response to his constituents, and actions within government departments (namely the federal Competition Bureau). If Larry Maguire - as you say - will just blame it on the other parties, then the people from Brandon-Souris can assess on this CHOICE, and can vote in a way that ensures that their MP is fighting for the local interests of the people whom appear to be constantly getting ripped off. Then, the voters have the choice to vote their alternate choice. What I know about the last federal election results, was that Larry had a significant drop of nearly 14% of the votes from the 2015 federal election, and a decrease of nearly 20% from the 2013 federal bi-election. If the trajectory shows a continual decline, it wouldn't take much for that to drop further, if our representative decides they will continue to ignore this file.

Dear Larry, please complain to the gas companies about having one of the lowest gas prices in Canada.

Dear Larry,  
 
Please ensure your constituents are treated FAIRLY with respect to gas prices being charged to the residents of Brandon. All we are asking for is that the people of Brandon are treated fairly, and that we are not constantly gouged at the pump, like our counterparts living outside of the city.  
 
Please represent the people of Brandon by ensuring that the oil and gas industry is not breaking competition laws, which is a federally regulated industry.  
 
You should already know that a competitive marketplace:  
 
- makes our economy work more efficiently:  
strengthens businesses' ability to adapt and compete in global markets:  
 
- gives small and medium businesses an equitable chance to compete and participate in the economy:  
 
- provides consumers with competitive prices, product choices and the information they need to make informed purchasing decisions: and  
balances the interests of consumers and producers, wholesalers and retailers, dominant players and minor players, the public interest and the private interest.

Oh please, let's not get government involved. There's legislation, litigation and consumer action, and for everyone of these actions there can be unintended consequences. Sometimes battles are best fought on a small scale, and anything involving government is never small scaled.

don brown, the laws and regulations are there for a reason, but if government wants to ignore their own laws and regulations, then government might as well be irrelevant. Which is Kermit's point. Governments lose legitimacy when they ignore their own rules and when the laws of this country do not apply to the big players. When rules only apply to those individuals who are not in a position to defend themselves from the practices of the rich and powerful industries, then there is no law and there is no country anymore. If Larry Maguire is not interested in taking on these issues for those constituents living in his riding for whom this is an important matter, then his office becomes irrelevant to those people that depend on him to carry out his job. And there are voter implications for his office on that.

We have some of the cheapest prices in Canada.  
What in your mind isn’t working.  
Gas stations are lowering their prices to stay competitive in Brandon.  
We are getting the lowest prices because they are fighting for customers.  
 
Edited by loeog, 2017-12-26 16:38:49

Based on the competition bureau website, some of the types of anti-competitive activities that should be investigated i:nclude:  
 
Price fixing: When competitors agree on the prices that they will charge their customers.  
 
Bid rigging: When, in response to a call or request for bids or tenders, ore or more bidders agree not to submit a bid, or two or more bidders agree to submit bids that have been prearranged among themselves.  
 
False or misleading representations: When materially false or misleading representations are made knowingly or recklessly to the public.  
 
Abuse of dominant position: When a dominant firm engages in anti-competitive practices that substantially lessen competition in a market, or are likely to do so.

It appears you only want 1 gas station to lower its price and you would be happy.  
Are you suggesting we ask for a law that stops competitive pricing?  
No garage owner in their right mind is going to keep their price higher than everyone else. That might make you happy, but why would a gas station owner want to be the highest price.  
 
I ask again, “when we have one of the lowest prices in Canada, what’s not working?”  
 
Edited by loeog, 2017-12-26 17:28:11

It's clear that Brandon has some business owners who feel threatened by a discussion surrounding competition in this city. Yes, I can understand why they might feel threatened by something that might interfere with profits, but it is unfair to suggest that the idea of competition in a rigged economy should be avoided at all costs. Sure, if my livelihood were threatened by someone demanding my accountability I might feel like I needed to defend myself. But all of us that are out here that are being gouged with no explanation as to why, are within our rights to ask the opposite questions as to "why"?  
 
All that has been asked here is for our member of parliament Larry Maguire to address the issue on this forum. Perhaps he is able to give a completely logical explanation that none of us have an answer to, and I am willing to hear him out. But please don't make all of us out here feel like we have an obligation NOT to ask questions about a situation that many of us feel is unwarranted, and unfair.  
 
It amazes me that both governments and the Competition Bureau don't seem interested in overseeing market manipulation when it comes to the price of gas, but it is equally frustrating when we see in the news that a government agency tasked with overseeing such an important part of the Canadian economy, seems only interested in going after the small guys or no one at all. We saw the Competition Bureau recently exempt from penalty one of Canada's largest retail grocery chains (Loblaws) and their subsidiary company Weston breads, from any penalties over what amounts to be a significant case of price-fixing scheme in the sale of bread, a staple food item, over an admitted 14 year period. Time to end the rigged economy, and allow fair competition practices in the Canadian "energy" marketplace. As we have seen since 2014, a decline in a barrel of oil (from a high of well over $100, to now less than half) has not seen any difference for consumers in the price (of gas) at the pump. And so while many government coffers (Alberta especially, but also Manitoba) are now hurting from the public's right to take in their fair share of the royalties associated with pumping out this publicly owned resource, private companies continue to extract and line their pockets to the tune of billions of dollars, through this rigged market. Time to put an end to this corporate welfare.  
 
You can't fix a rigged market when you put your head in the sand and fail to identify what the real problems are.  
 
The system ain't broken, folks. It is a well engineered machine that has been designed this way. The rigged economy is alive and well, and there is no doubt that the public is getting screwed.  
 
Edited by Kirmit, 2017-12-26 18:00:46

And we have some of the cheapest gas in Canada!

CatMan said "Brandon is not the only one getting screwed, Minnedosa and Neepawa prices go up the moment Brandon does.   It does seem very bah humbug for them to do it just before Xmas and at the beginning of a cold snap when we will use more fuel to warm up the car before heading out.   Funny, Heritage Co-op (headquarters in Minnedosa) are always bragging about how much they do for their members. Maybe just once they could show leadership and refrain from jumping on the money bandwagon. "

Ya! Make those employees work for free, be damned with environmental requirements, permits, upkeep and the rest! Do you see other stations providing full service like coop does? Do stations that don't provide service give you a discount on fuel price?....I didn't think so.  
 
Get real. It''s a business, grow up.  
 
Edited by Opportunities Abound, 2017-12-26 20:48:43

Kirmit said "It's clear that Brandon has some business owners who feel threatened by a discussion surrounding competition in this city. Yes, I can understand why they might feel threatened by something that might interfere with profits, but it is unfair to suggest that the idea of competition in a rigged economy should be avoided at all costs. Sure, if my livelihood were threatened by someone demanding my accountability I might feel like I needed to defend myself. But all of us that are out here that are being gouged with no explanation as to why, are within our rights to ask the opposite questions as to "why"?     All that has been asked here is for our member of parliament Larry Maguire to address the issue on this forum. Perhaps he is able to give a completely logical explanation that none of us have an answer to, and I am willing to hear him out. But please don't make all of us out here feel like we have an obligation NOT to ask questions about a situation that many of us feel is unwarranted, and unfair.     It amazes me that both governments and the Competition Bureau don't seem interested in overseeing market manipulation when it comes to the price of gas, but it is equally frustrating when we see in the news that a government agency tasked with overseeing such an important part of the Canadian economy, seems only interested in going after the small guys or no one at all. We saw the Competition Bureau recently exempt from penalty one of Canada's largest retail grocery chains (Loblaws) and their subsidiary company Weston breads, from any penalties over what amounts to be a significant case of price-fixing scheme in the sale of bread, a staple food item, over an admitted 14 year period. Time to end the rigged economy, and allow fair competition practices in the Canadian "energy" marketplace. As we have seen since 2014, a decline in a barrel of oil (from a high of well over $100, to now less than half) has not seen any difference for consumers in the price (of gas) at the pump. And so while many government coffers (Alberta especially, but also Manitoba) are now hurting from the public's right to take in their fair share of the royalties associated with pumping out this publicly owned resource, private companies continue to extract and line their pockets to the tune of billions of dollars, through this rigged market. Time to put an end to this corporate welfare.     You can't fix a rigged market when you put your head in the sand and fail to identify what the real problems are.     The system ain't broken, folks. It is a well engineered machine that has been designed this way. The rigged economy is alive and well, and there is no doubt that the public is getting screwed.     Edited by Kirmit, 2017-12-26 18:00:46"

What are appropriate margins for selling fuel and where do you draw line line oh enlightened one? Do you think overhead costs are $0? How environmentally responsible should our gas stations be? How safety oriented should they be? Do you know how heavily regulated the gas industry is?  
 
GMAFB.  
 
Edited by Opportunities Abound, 2017-12-26 20:55:05

My line is drawn at fairness. For some, it appears that can be a challenging concept. For others, it's just paying an amount that is competitive and in line with the communities outside of Brandon who are subject to the same tax structures as the generous folks in Brandon.  
 
Is that too much to ask? Apparently, some in Brandon's business community think so.

the price of gas goes up, right before the holidays, not just at Christmas, like a cash grab.  
No different than the price of groceries, etc. that need to be bought before Christmas, that's a cash grab too!  
It's all about the money folks!