Discussions

Let him quit. His argument is ridiculous because he wants to refuse to drive a bus because of how the bus looks, yet everyday he transports actual LGBTQ people where they need to go.  
 
And since his paycheck comes from the taxpayers, he does not get to refuse based on his outdated religious beliefs.

no one has any freedom anymore!!!  
 
Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....  
 
not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right.....  
 
 

Johnbisonbear said "no one has any freedom anymore!!!     Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....     not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right.....       "

Freedom to impede on freedom of speech is sort of a conundrum.

He is free to quit his taxpayer funded job. And I don't think special concessions should be made for any religious group when they are receiving taxpayer money, Muslim, Christian, or any other religion.

....notion that people can even contemplate refusing to do their jobs for such things.  
 

agree with this stance, we make concessions every day for religious beliefs. The only reason this is a outrage is because they are using Christianity as their religious beliefs and this is now becoming the most hated and discriminated religion out there. We have made concessions for head dress in the RCMP, construction, and many other professions due to religious beliefs (just choosing one of many religious concessions). If this was a matter of the city telling every driver they must wear a Gay Pride baseball hat do we really think every Sikh, Muslim or anyone else that wears religious head dresses would be forced to remove them and put the Gay Pride hat on? NOT a chance!!! So why is it that we make concessions for some religions and not Christianity? Why is it so bad for a Christian to stand up or their moral and religious beliefs and yet we don't worry about the safety of construction workers not being forced to wear their hard hats (or wear them properly), or we change the RCMP uniform to fit other religious beliefs dress standards?  
I myself would have no problems driving this bus. I have no real concern about changing dress codes (except for the safety reasons) for religious beliefs....BUT if we do it for one, we have to do it for all! I think unless you are working in a Christian (or any religious) establishment you should just follow the rules set out to you or quit. If that means you can't work construction cause your turban won't allow you to properly wear a hard hat then you either choose your religious beliefs or that pay check. As a Christian if you are of the standing that being gay is a lifestyle you don't agree with, you either suck it up and drive the bus and know that if Jesus was here He would be right in the middle of the parade/lifestyle bringing people to God (like He did with prostitutes and murderers...if you believe in that) or quit your job.  
But we make concessions every day and if we make 1 for 1 religion, we have to make them for all.

He is an employee of The City of Calgary and he follows their rules, he doesn't get to make them.  
Ever hear of "No Discrimination"???  
Let him quit, sounds like he's just stirring the pot and they're probably better off without someone who thinks he can get away with crap like this.

ok while no one so far thinks that special consideration should be given to any religious group yet isnt special consideration and support being given to the LGBTQ group? Unless its a paid add, which the article leads me to believe it isnt then the city of Calgary is sending a message obviously not every citizen supports, now i have no issues with rainbow pride but my question is why is it ok for the tax payers to make a statement in one area but this guy should have to quit because of his believes because its a tax payer based job? Which in this case imo makes no difference where the funds come from to pay his check

sure there are plenty of Calgary Transit drivers who would have no problem driving that bus. But other than the special wrap, it's still just a bus. And probably one that he has driven before. It's not like he's being asked to where a rainbow uniform while he drives a bus.

Johnbisonbear said "no one has any freedom anymore!!!     Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....     not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right.....       "

What if he refused to drive a bus that had an advertising banner on it for the "Idle no More" movement or the "NAACP", would it be OK for him to do what he feels is right?  
 
Where do we draw the line as far as coddling the feelings of public employees? I believe he is in the wrong: his request shows his discriminatory feelings toward the LGBT community.

fargobob said "    Johnbisonbear said "no one has any freedom anymore!!!     Besides if the driver was Muslim, changes would be made to suit his religion....     not saying he is right or wrong but he should be able to do what he feels is right.....       " What if he refused to drive a bus that had an advertising banner on it for the "Idle no More" movement or the "NAACP", would it be OK for him to do what he feels is right?     Where do we draw the line as far as coddling the feelings of public employees? I believe he is in the wrong: his request shows his discriminatory feelings toward the LGBT community. "

we have to "coddle them" and accept their way of life? whatever it may be?  
 
Why can't a person's choice of who they want to have sex with be private? I have no desire to know who's fluffing what!

think it would look good on his resume or reference. What would this say about him, he will refuse to work if asked to do something that doesn't agree with his religion.  
 
Just because the bus has a wrap promoting an event or product, doesn't mean the driver has to change his personal views. But he still needs to drive the bus. Would he also refuse if an anti-abortion group paid to wrap a bus?

The fact that you think Pride is about sex shows a deep lack of understanding of what the LGBQT community has been through and stands for. It's no wonder you support the bus driver and don't support Pride.

Opinionated said "The fact that you think Pride is about sex shows a deep lack of understanding of what the LGBQT community has been through and stands for. It's no wonder you support the bus driver and don't support Pride. "

it is no ones business who has sex with what gender! But now a days people want everyone to know who they're banging!  
 
I don't want to know who's cheating on who either! Everyone's sex life should be private, whether they are gay or straight!  
 
Besides, isn't that what people hook up for?  
 

I have no interest in who's banging who, or what. That isn't the issue.  
 
The issue is, why should the bus driver, a public employee, get to pick and choose what bus he drives based on the banner or advertising that is on the outside of the bus?

Do tax dollars have to go into turning a city bus into a giant rainbow? Are they there to raise awareness of gay pride or are the buses meant to get people from one point to another? I'm not against gay pride, I am actually happy that they are able to be happy and not hide who they are but really do we need to have constant images and signs In our face 24/7.

I reread the article and I'm unsure who paid for the bus to be wrapped. It says it was done in a show of support which makes me think the public dollar was spent on this, but it really doesn't spell it out.

The cost was $9,000 and was paid for by the three partners, including Calgary Pride. It was NOT funded by taxpayers.  
 
Sick if people trying to hide their bigoted attitudes behind their religion, whatever that may be.

If a gay bus driver refused to drive a bus with an add smeared all over it promoting traditional marriage would he be called out for not doing his job or hailed a hero? I'm not trying to be a bigot but I'm curious how that would be viewed.

kcm1979 said "If a gay bus driver refused to drive a bus with an add smeared all over it promoting traditional marriage would he be called out for not doing his job or hailed a hero? I'm not trying to be a bigot but I'm curious how that would be viewed. "

Its different when a member of a discriminated minority stands up against their oppressors.  
 
Gay people just want acceptance and equality, certain religious groups want to deny them that basic right.  
 
Similar to how certain white people denied black people the right to sit at the front of the bus, black people wanted equality, their oppressors wanted to deny them that "based on their beliefs". On a side note, the kkk was actually a christian organization.  
 
In this case it's the minority gay people just wanting to get married and the Christian fundamentalists wishing to deny them that human right.  
 
Of course not all Christians are against gay equality and I applaud that, as marriage or at least monogamous unions have been around far longer then Judaism and Christianity, and no group has any right to call ownership over it.  
 
But to answer your question, if it were a gay person in that situation, he/she should still just do their jobs, its not directly harming them and there are better avenues to fight for equality and against religious intolerance and discrimination.

Again, this isn't about who's "fluffing" who. This isn't about anyone wanting anyone else to know who they are hooking up with. Why do you keep bringing this stuff up??

Would a bully be allowed to not drive the bus that advertises the stop bullying program? That is the basis of this driver's refusal.  
 
The driver may not agree with the advertising that is on the bus but it is legal and supported by the majority of people in Canada. If the driver is still against the concept then they are welcome to leave our society, starting with this taxpayer job. The LGTB (etc., I lost track of the additional letters that are also deserving of equal treatment) has the support of the citizens of Calgary.  
 
The Pride Parade probably brings in a good chunk of change into the economy in addition to displaying that the city is welcoming to everyone and that attitude would also increase the economy beyond the events.  
 
 
 

Kat - really, he can leave our society? how nice and tolerant of you  
 
im not sure why the fact that tax payers subsidize the bus lets us have any say over what this driver believes? the only time we get a say is when the person we are supporting gets to us their beliefs to make the rules of society, this guy drives a bus and that is what calgarians pay him for, period!  
 
honestly there are many drivers out there that dont care so like any company, decent one anyway, they will take his feelings into consideration and assign him a different bus, its not that difficult  
 

My opinion is that the city of Calgary should not even allow this situation to have started. It is a huge debate among people just like the the billboard signs against abortion. Keep your beliefs in private and don't try and push your beliefs on me. In my opinion, they need to advertise because they know alot of people like me do not have the same mindset.

on-second-thought said "The cost was $9,000 and was paid for by the three partners, including Calgary Pride. It was NOT funded by taxpayers.     Sick if people trying to hide their bigoted attitudes behind their religion, whatever that may be. "

Thanks for providing an answer.

He's not discriminating against the people or being 'their oppressor'. He transports gay people. But its the sign saying that a gay lifestyle is morally right that he shouldn't be forced to support.  
 
When the law was changed by Paul Martin without a vote by Canadians, in fact support for gay marriage was just barely over 50 percent. Nearly half the country doesn't support the morality of this. It's sensitive issue, that causes strong reactions in both sides.  
 
Just not sure morality issues need to be on a public bus. Sure, advertise about the community. Advertise against bullying or for being a good neighbor. But to advertise pride and supremacy of a minority opinion on morality, and imply shame to the rest of Canadians shows that they aren't even tolerant of others, let alone supportive.  
 
They want it both ways and it just won't work. Some of the hate on here from those who claim to be loving, supportive people is scary. Your opinion might not be right and antagonizing others in a Prideful way isn't going to win fans to the cause.

Opinionated said "Again, this isn't about who's "fluffing" who. This isn't about anyone wanting anyone else to know who they are hooking up with. Why do you keep bringing this stuff up?? "

You talked about "pride" before, can you expound on what "pride" is? Does any of the "pride" involve having sex with the same gender?

To me, pride is about being proud of yourself no matter how "different" you are. It's about being accepted no matter who you choose to love. Yes, sex is part of love, but you seem to be focusing on that issue. When you go to a wedding, are you sitting there through the whole thing thinking about the fact that the new couple will be having sex that night? Are you bothered by the affection they show each other through the night? They are proud of their love for each other and want to share that love with family and friends, right? So why is it different for gay people? Why can't they be proud of who they love and show it off? Why do you have to focus on the sex part and not the love part? Of course sex is part of it, but love and acceptance is what it's about.

It is not the bus driver that should be attempting to define society's moral issues.  
 
It is not just about who is having what sex with someone else. It is about the other aspects of the relationship as suggested by Opinionated. When a heterosexual couple decide to be in a committed relationship, there are many benefits beyond a bedroom companion.  
 
When a spouse is admitted to the hospital, who should be their advocate, power of attorney, and main visitor? Until recently, this was not given to the homosexual spouse in the same way that the heterosexual spouse received it. If a heterosexual spouse passes away without a will, the estate automatically goes to the surviving spouse (and any children) but the homosexual spouse has had to fight for equal treatment. These are just two of the many inequalities that the Pride organizations have focused on to make others aware of the inequality they face in everyday life.  
 
There are many more rights and benefits that the heterosexual couples take for granted and insist on denying the homosexual couples, but the Supreme Court of Canada has decided that all couples should be treated the same. I think I would rather have the members of the Supreme Court of Canada deciding what is right and not a bus driver. If the bus driver and anyone else does not agree with the decision of these educated and experienced men and women, then they are welcome to move to a country that has laws that agree with the morals they want everyone to follow.  
 
 
Edited by katwalk1909, 2015-08-29 08:58:02