Discussions

While I get that riding a motorcycle is a fun activity, it is frustrating as a vehicle driver to encounter you on the road due to all black bikes and all black helmets which make you virtually impossible to see. I''ve noticed a trend towards these all black helmets....it''s making you more at risk for collisions  
 
I feel there should be mandatory neon colouring as part of a helmet system or Somewhere on the front of the bikes or perhaps a double headlight that resembles a vehicle all to make motorcycles more visible.  
I have perfect vision and young eyes and I continually encounter almost runins with motorcyclists.  
I am scared someday to have an accident!  
Why don''t motorcyclists dress in brighter clothing ?  
 
Edited by Beajulsha, 2017-08-08 20:14:57

As a rider, I truly appreciate your concern on visibility. Unfortunately bikes are hard to see and keep track as they maneuver on the road whether it be lane changes or change in position in a lane. I cannot speak for others but black is the most popular color and most available color in leather clothing. Leather motorcycle jackets are part of the bikers style and play an important role on safety. Dress for the slide not the ride...  
Leather protects best in the event of a unexpected get of at speed.  
Helmets...m8ne 8a black because it matches my blue and black bike. I do not wear leathers I wear ballistic nylon jacket and pants. The jacket is blue/white and black with reflective piping.  
Bikes should have front lights on so that's a plus but people still don't see us.  
Again thank you for your concern and keep on keeping an eye out for us.

As an owner of a Can Am Spyder (three wheels, two in front, one in back) I find it amazing how people still can't see me, turn in front of me, or cut me off. From the front I have two headlights, plus running lights. You will notice me because I always wear neon Tee shirts, or a bright orange jacket. Having ridden for over 40 years, defensive driving is a must for any motorcyclist, and I have had many close calls due to "cagers" who don't see you. When I was on two wheels, I wore full leather, which is mostly available in black, but always had additional lighting and reflective tape.

The problem is that you are looking for cars/trucks when you quickly glance down the road. You need to train your brain to look for all motorists including motorcycles. The issues stems from not seeing motorcycles for nearly 8 months at a time during winter. Don''t pull out after only a quick subconscious glance down the road. Make sure you actively look around first. Even with high visibility gear car drivers still pull out in front and claim they didn''t see the motorcycle. Motocyclist that are driving in cars don''t hit bikers because their brain is trained to actively look for and wave to other bikers. Take responsibility for your dangerous activitiy and stop blaming the color of clothing the bikers wear.  
 
Edited by Andy_Wright, 2017-08-09 11:16:51

Loud pipes and defensive riding. Seems to work for me so far. (Knock on wood)

In the past week, I've seen two near misses. Cars that have almost sideswiped motorcycles that have sent my heart into palpitations )and probably the motorcyclists)! It's scary

People in cars should watch out and train their brain to look out for people dressed in all black (so they can look cool)...maybe bikers should train their brains... take responsibility for themselves, and wear a reflective vest OVER their protective leather...every other area where not being seen is a problem they wear reflective clothing...hunters, construction worker, highways,...but no bikers should be allowed to look cool!!!!

Eyebiter said "People in cars should watch out and train their brain to look out for people dressed in all black (so they can look cool)...maybe bikers should train their brains... take responsibility for themselves, and wear a reflective vest OVER their protective leather...every other area where not being seen is a problem they wear reflective clothing...hunters, construction worker, highways,...but no bikers should be allowed to look cool!!!! "

Good call!!!

Eyebiter said "People in cars should watch out and train their brain to look out for people dressed in all black (so they can look cool)...maybe bikers should train their brains... take responsibility for themselves, and wear a reflective vest OVER their protective leather...every other area where not being seen is a problem they wear reflective clothing...hunters, construction worker, highways,...but no bikers should be allowed to look cool!!!! "

I find black contrasts better against light backgrounds better. Only time would be harder is during dusk and dawn, or when they totally pave the roads that dark black. What next? White cars should have beacons in the winter to make them more visible?

blankinside said "Loud pipes and defensive riding. Seems to work for me so far. (Knock on wood) "

Loud pipes just make noise. They are not a safety feature.  
 
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/stop-saying-loud-pipes-save-lives

Fishin Guy said "    Eyebiter said "People in cars should watch out and train their brain to look out for people dressed in all black (so they can look cool)...maybe bikers should train their brains... take responsibility for themselves, and wear a reflective vest OVER their protective leather...every other area where not being seen is a problem they wear reflective clothing...hunters, construction worker, highways,...but no bikers should be allowed to look cool!!!! " I find black contrasts better against light backgrounds better. Only time would be harder is during dusk and dawn, or when they totally pave the roads that dark black. What next? White cars should have beacons in the winter to make them more visible? "

every industry out there is not dressing there employees in black so they stand out and are sooooo much safer... again I call BS...take responsibility for your self...instead of trying to but it on everyone else!

Eyebiter said "    Fishin Guy said "    Eyebiter said "People in cars should watch out and train their brain to look out for people dressed in all black (so they can look cool)...maybe bikers should train their brains... take responsibility for themselves, and wear a reflective vest OVER their protective leather...every other area where not being seen is a problem they wear reflective clothing...hunters, construction worker, highways,...but no bikers should be allowed to look cool!!!! " I find black contrasts better against light backgrounds better. Only time would be harder is during dusk and dawn, or when they totally pave the roads that dark black. What next? White cars should have beacons in the winter to make them more visible? " every industry out there is not dressing there employees in black so they stand out and are sooooo much safer... again I call BS...take responsibility for your self...instead of trying to but it on everyone else! "

How well can you see these workers when they have equipment in front of them? Almost 70% of accidents involve vehicles turning in front of a rider. You would be very lucky to see the shoulders of the rider. Windshields would cause glare, etc.

I think some (not all) bike riders are caught up in the biker fantasy - stick it to the man - attitude so they wear the smallest helmet they legally have to, if they wear it at all, and try to appear they are wild and free. If they really wanted to be safe they wouldn't ride a motorcycle in the first place. They will never agree to start wearing a neon pink vest or put a traffic cone on top of their skull cap. Some people pull out in front of semis that they didn't see either so everyone needs to be on the lookout for the other person no matter what vehicle you are in.

I like the reflective vest idea.... Easily removed when they reach their destination (which they will increase their chances of arriving safely)  
and They''ll still look cool to boot in their black leather)  
You are so on point....all these other outdoor jobs/hobbies where accidents are happening, bright reflective clothing has made a positive difference...  
Which reminds me, I saw A tow driver on the side of the highway the other day, I don''t believe he was wearing reflective clothing  
 
Edited by Beajulsha, 2017-08-10 11:46:54

withallduerespect said "I think some (not all) bike riders are caught up in the biker fantasy - stick it to the man - attitude so they wear the smallest helmet they legally have to, if they wear it at all, and try to appear they are wild and free. If they really wanted to be safe they wouldn't ride a motorcycle in the first place. They will never agree to start wearing a neon pink vest or put a traffic cone on top of their skull cap. Some people pull out in front of semis that they didn't see either so everyone needs to be on the lookout for the other person no matter what vehicle you are in. "

people under estimate how dangerous many actions are but saying people shouldnt ride motorcycles because they are unsafe isn't a good argument. Altho there are risks with driving a motorcycle i believe everyone on one knows how risky motorcycles are and they drive defensively BUT, how many other people on the roads realize how much risk they are taking?  
 
just looking at some quick stats (us of course, since they are easier to get lol)  
 
80 people die each day on the roads  
 
pedestrians 12.1%  
 
motorcyclist 13.1%  
 
passenger's 20%  
 
drivers 52.1%  
 
so just by that its more dangerous to be a passenger, and barely better to be a pedestrian and way worse to be the driver yet NO ONE ever thinks, if people wanted to be safe they would stay off the roads, do they?  
 
 
I know motorcyclist watch for everyone and I do understand that they can be missed, every vehicle can, but I also think that ALL drivers should be looking for ALL types of vehicles. Drivers should always be looking around themselves so if they see a bike and then dont they should be warry of where they went, they should also slow down at intersections, no taxi stops, easy to miss things ect. basically be aware of every road condition, including other vehicles

pudds said "    blankinside said "Loud pipes and defensive riding. Seems to work for me so far. (Knock on wood) " Loud pipes just make noise. They are not a safety feature.     https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/stop-saying-loud-pipes-save-lives "

They also make up for a lack of possessing other equipment and serve as an attention-seeking device.

It would not matter what a motorcyclist did to be more visible. The road is getting worse to drive on every year. I have been on the road for years driving large trucks hauling over sized loads and even with beacons, wide load signs, flags attached to the widest points and more flashing lights to mark the edge of the load and I still get cut off! Parts of me want to start riding motorcycles but I think of how often I have had close calls where I am the big guy weighing over 100,000 pounds where I know I would be the winner but would probably end my driving career and think how I would fair on a motorcycle and its keeping me from doing it. Everyone needs to look, look and look again before they proceed!

Those figures don't take into account that motorcycles account for only a small fraction of vehicles on the road.  
 
"According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in 2006, 13.10 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles is 72.34 per 100,000 registered motorcycles. Motorcycles also have a higher fatality rate per unit of distance travelled when compared with automobiles. Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car."  
 
Mandatory Hi-vis gear is under discussion in some European countries, and is quite popular anyway.  
I don't see why it shouldn't be mandatory, or perhaps make it optional for those who value fashion over function, but their insurance becomes liability only if that's what they choose.

traveller said "    withallduerespect said "I think some (not all) bike riders are caught up in the biker fantasy - stick it to the man - attitude so they wear the smallest helmet they legally have to, if they wear it at all, and try to appear they are wild and free. If they really wanted to be safe they wouldn't ride a motorcycle in the first place. They will never agree to start wearing a neon pink vest or put a traffic cone on top of their skull cap. Some people pull out in front of semis that they didn't see either so everyone needs to be on the lookout for the other person no matter what vehicle you are in. " people under estimate how dangerous many actions are but saying people shouldnt ride motorcycles because they are unsafe isn't a good argument. Altho there are risks with driving a motorcycle i believe everyone on one knows how risky motorcycles are and they drive defensively BUT, how many other people on the roads realize how much risk they are taking?     just looking at some quick stats (us of course, since they are easier to get lol)     80 people die each day on the roads     pedestrians 12.1%     motorcyclist 13.1%     passenger's 20%     drivers 52.1%     so just by that its more dangerous to be a passenger, and barely better to be a pedestrian and way worse to be the driver yet NO ONE ever thinks, if people wanted to be safe they would stay off the roads, do they?       I know motorcyclist watch for everyone and I do understand that they can be missed, every vehicle can, but I also think that ALL drivers should be looking for ALL types of vehicles. Drivers should always be looking around themselves so if they see a bike and then dont they should be warry of where they went, they should also slow down at intersections, no taxi stops, easy to miss things ect. basically be aware of every road condition, including other vehicles "

While I agree that motorcycle driving is not as big a risk as some feel, the above numbers (assuming accurate - as I have not fact checked them) do not really take into consideration all factors. How many more people drive cars than motorcycles (lots - but I have not numbers). Every car on the road has a drive, many do not have a passenger. For these numbers to have true meaning, it would have to be taken on a per capita basis.

Enfyre said "Those figures don't take into account that motorcycles account for only a small fraction of vehicles on the road.     "According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in 2006, 13.10 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles is 72.34 per 100,000 registered motorcycles. Motorcycles also have a higher fatality rate per unit of distance travelled when compared with automobiles. Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car."     Mandatory Hi-vis gear is under discussion in some European countries, and is quite popular anyway.   I don't see why it shouldn't be mandatory, or perhaps make it optional for those who value fashion over function, but their insurance becomes liability only if that's what they choose. "

Here are Canadian statistics.  
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp3322-2015-1487.html  
 
The hi-vis wear you mention insurance should be taken into consideration. That should be the same for autos. If a person driving a vehicle hits a motorbike wearing hi-vis clothing, the vehicle should be nailed hard then for not paying attention. But guess what, we all pay into the pot so I would be punished too in that instance.

Enfyre said "Those figures don't take into account that motorcycles account for only a small fraction of vehicles on the road.     "According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in 2006, 13.10 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles is 72.34 per 100,000 registered motorcycles. Motorcycles also have a higher fatality rate per unit of distance travelled when compared with automobiles. Per vehicle mile traveled, motorcyclists' risk of a fatal crash is 35 times greater than a passenger car."     Mandatory Hi-vis gear is under discussion in some European countries, and is quite popular anyway.   I don't see why it shouldn't be mandatory, or perhaps make it optional for those who value fashion over function, but their insurance becomes liability only if that's what they choose. "

yes it may be more risky for motorcyclists as statistics suggest but my point is its still very dangerous to be on the road at all, walking driving, riding in a car, and yes driving a bike, yet withallduerespect figured bikes shouldnt be on the road at all if they valued safety yet 80 people a day die on the roads or by your stats, 13.10 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes (how many near fatal crashes as well)  
 
ps my post also admitted there are risks with motorcycles, riders are aware but many car drivers take being on the road not really risky

popcorn in hand watching this thread and I must say....it's a lot more boring than I expected!! I wasn't going to say anything but as someone that rides in the whooping 3-6mths a year here in Mb I just can't let it go.  
If you (op) can not see a motorcycle while driving I would strongly suggest getting your eyes checked, change vehicles as maybe your vehicle is not suited for you to be able to see properly without HUGE blind spots or go back to driving school. You not seeing ME is your problem, which becomes MY problem (hence why I am always watching and prepared to mitigate the situation)....but it's still YOUR problem/fault. To mandate me as a rider to wear hi-vis clothing is such a false sense of security y'all have made up in your heads to justify your poor driving it's not even funny! If Hi-vis clothing would make you see a motorbike, why do Police, Firefighters, EMS, Tow Truck Drivers and Highway workers get hit on a regular bases? Because people like yourself are too wrapped up in your own little bubble. Flashing lights, signs, high-vis clothing and numerous people and big equipment working and these workers/people still get hit and killed regularly from people that just shouldn't be driving! So please explain to me how me with 3 headlights and 2 bright orange turn signals, glistening chrome coming down the street obeying the laws and enjoying my mode of transportation is going to be protected from a distracted, unobservant driver like yourself (and others) just by wearing a reflective vest? If people would just buy a proper fitting vehicle for themselves and do proper drivers training the streets would be a safer place for all of us!  
Now please don't get me wrong, I make mistakes while driving/riding. I am not perfect, I have cut people off, I have texted while driving, I speed (5-10kms above posted highway speeds), I even go slower than posted speeds in residential/park areas and I am also that guy that when he sees workers on the roads will slow to below 60km/h while passing them (cause I have almost been hit at a MVC with lights flashing), so I make my fair share of mistakes, but not once when I make my own mistake will I sit there and justify it by saying; that person needs to paint their car reflective orange and put flashing lights on it so I can see it. It's MY fault, accept it and change it by re-training or just paying more attention!  
To all us bikers that say "loud pipes save lives" it is time to pull our heads out of our arses and realize that this it NOT the case. Loud pipes only and I mean ONLY make us happy! If this theory was true, please explain to me why (and op you can explain the visual side of this next comment to me) when I am responding in a fire truck with lights, sirens and horns blasting it is so difficult to get people to hear me coming and move to the right and STOP????? Now please remember this is a very bright, lights flashing (and lots of lights flashing), air horns honking and sirens in multiple tones truck and you either can't hear me or see me (or just don't care about anyone but yourselves)! People have music playing, talking on the phone, yelling at the kids, replaying the fight they just had at work/home and every new car commercial is bragging about how "sound proof" their latest model is. You can NOT hear loud pipes, sirens, horns until we are right in the blind spot of the vehicles now a days and by this time it's too late for my loud pipes (and I have very loud pipes) to save my life cause I am either just about passing them or I've scared the crap out of them and now they swerve into my lane and take me out anyways So please for the love of loud pipes, STOP saying "loud pipes save lives" cause loud sirens don't make people move so your loud pipes won't either!  
While this has been a longer post then I wanted it to be, I will finish off by saying, multiple FD's around the world have also changed from the yellow/brown gear to black to be seen better during day time operations. The contrast of black in daylight makes them more visible while doing road work. If you don't believe me, put a person wearing black beside a highway worker wearing those florescent yellow jump suits on the side of the road and tell me which one you see first. You just have to pay attention to your surroundings when you're driving and drive a vehicle that fits you,not something that looks cool or is the cheapest. Maybe if high-vis vest are a must in your world, us bikers should lobby for all drivers to be fitted to their vehicles for our safety before you can buy anything!