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Are we ready for border opening? Too soon?

Are we ready for border opening? Too soon?

chickendinner
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 198

chickendinner
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 198

Are we ready for border opening? Too soon?
7/21/2021 at 2:50 PM

As of August 9, fully vaccinated citizens of USA can enter Canada. We will have to wait until August 21 or later to enter USA. With the latest increases in new variants, is this too soon?
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
7/21/2021 at 3:19 PM

chickendinner said "As of August 9, fully vaccinated citizens of USA can enter Canada. We will have to wait until August 21 or later to enter USA. With the latest increases in new variants, is this too soon? "
Absolutely it is too soon. As we are seeing in other jurisdictions some with similar vaccination levels it is far too early to become complacent especially given the low vaccination rates reported in the USA. When that country can fulfill more fully their obligation to help protect others then border control relaxation could be considered.

Edited by Farmergeorge, 2021-07-21 15:24:11
RickC

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24

RickC
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24

Border
7/21/2021 at 4:03 PM

If you are fully vaccinated what is the issue
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
7/21/2021 at 4:23 PM

RickC said "If you are fully vaccinated what is the issue "
The issue is simple. Those that are unvaccinated provide a reservoir for the virus and are an ideal breeding ground for more new variants of concern that possibly may be resistant to the vaccines. The more people travelling around unnecessarily the further the risk of infection and further spread.
RickC

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24

RickC
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24

Border
7/21/2021 at 5:02 PM

It was their choice not to get vaccinated
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
7/21/2021 at 5:08 PM

RickC said "It was their choice not to get vaccinated "
Yes it was their choice but in doing so they put the rest of us that are vaccinated at further risk.
RickC

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24

RickC
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24

Border
7/21/2021 at 5:32 PM

We are vaccinated, the ones at risk are the people that chose not to get the vaccine
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

It isn’t that simple
7/21/2021 at 5:59 PM

RickC said "We are vaccinated, the ones at risk are the people that chose not to get the vaccine "
Vaccination does not give 100% protection and there is no certainty that current vaccines will protect against future new variants.
p1
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 60

p1
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 60

opening
7/21/2021 at 8:55 PM

why not just give u a day pass go across at 8 be home at 10. most places in canada you can get to withing that time.
Brian mailto:confcod
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 557

Brian mailto:confcod
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 557

day Pass
7/21/2021 at 10:42 PM

good idea P1 plus amrticans dont wear any masks seen on youtube
Cjford
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 419

Cjford
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 419

7/21/2021 at 11:16 PM

Brian mailto:confcod said "good idea P1 plus amrticans dont wear any masks seen on youtube "
Restrictions for masks are largely gone in u.s. its no different than if you travel to alberta or saskatchewan. I feel like an alien in a business being only one with a mask on.
Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Masks
7/21/2021 at 11:40 PM

Cjford said "Restrictions for masks are largely gone in u.s. its no different than if you travel to alberta or saskatchewan. I feel like an alien in a business being only one with a mask on. "
This maskless business won't last long until everyone virtually everywhere worldwide is vaccinated. Quite a few places are re-imposing mask mandates because infections are spiking despite a decent number of people being vaccinated (see UK, Netherlands and parts of the US). Nationally, cases have tripled in the past 2 weeks in the US, places like Mississippi have been hit extremely hard although they have a low vaccination rate.
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

if what you are saying
7/22/2021 at 8:24 AM

Farmergeorge said "Vaccination does not give 100% protection and there is no certainty that current vaccines will protect against future new variants. "
is true, then the border should stay closed permanently?
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
7/22/2021 at 9:00 AM

Johnbisonbear said "is true, then the border should stay closed permanently? "
Public health must be protected at all costs.
Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Going away
7/22/2021 at 9:50 AM

Farmergeorge said "Public health must be protected at all costs. "
Covid isn't going away, but vaccination does make it annoying vs. deadly and will allow life to resume with some added precautions.

Here's a really good read about getting Covid after vaccination. It's still possible, it's still miserable, we still need to be cautious.

https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/covid-delta-variant-risk-vaccinated-breakthrough-cases.html
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

then
7/22/2021 at 10:13 AM

Farmergeorge said "Public health must be protected at all costs. "
all flights should be halted?
Deena
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 2

Deena
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 2

Border Opening
7/22/2021 at 10:21 AM

Are we ready? No !!! this should not happen vaccines only lessen the symptoms does not protect from Covid or variants. You can still get Covid and the variants. Stupid stupid stupid. But why do I care its not me.
TripleTrouble
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29

TripleTrouble
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29

very informative site
7/22/2021 at 10:26 AM

A good read. Lots of information.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

For the time being
7/22/2021 at 10:31 AM

Johnbisonbear said "all flights should be halted? "
Until more of the population is fully vaccinated and case numbers around the globe significantly reduce I believe that international passenger flights should be grounded.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Re-opening
7/23/2021 at 10:21 AM

Cjford said "Restrictions for masks are largely gone in u.s. its no different than if you travel to alberta or saskatchewan. I feel like an alien in a business being only one with a mask on. "

We’re on Vancouver Island right now and road tripped with the minimum stops to get here. The drive was an eye opener… the coles notes is that masks “optional” in the other Western provinces is being taken in greater numbers than I thought as masks “off.” Stop in Moose Jaw was about 50/50, even staff in their tourism building were without (granted behind glass). Canmore was the first real “holy (poop)” moment. If you just emerged from a hole for the last year and a half you might be surprised we’re working through a pandemic. Sidewalks quite full, us generally having to be the ones to sidestep to allow for decent distance. Van pulls up and drops off a full compliment of eight “da boyz” ready for a night on the town. Our motel sends me a text as we’re getting close advising that the hot tub is now open and ready for use (I'm two doses plus two weeks, but a little too soon thx). Grocery store I made a run to had about 50 people it, only three with masks on that I saw. Revelstoke grocery store was similar and of course you have to quickly accept you don’t get to know anyone’s vaccine status and trust in your own. In Abbotsford I was asked to take my mask off at the quick service food restaurant so the guy working the counter could understand me better (politely declined). noticable difference on the ferry and Island itself where its more like 3/4 chosen mask use… but its all enough to see where this is heading barring Delta (or future variant) complications.
This is the environment an open border will plug into, keeping in mind that whoever comes across is fully vaccinated to start.
With Manitoba being behind the other provinces in timeline around impacts of third wave and with having to make decisions with Winkler/Steinbach in mind I imagine we’re extra cautious in flipping the switch to the next level of re-opening as we stick to our guns with criteria needed for the third phase (80%/75%). If Manitoba’s still in its current re-opening stage it will be interesting to see what kind of education is in place to make sure our current rules are known and followed by visitors to make sure we're safely sticking to what needs to be done for the province and it's own unique Covid state.
don brown
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4956

don brown
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4956

Annoying
7/23/2021 at 10:18 PM

I know that much of what we’ve been through has been sort of a pain, but what we are doing right now, as far as opening up and getting back to normal, will likely be looked at in the future as a mistake.
Yuzu
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 107

Yuzu
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 107

?
7/23/2021 at 10:40 PM

Adam said "

We’re on Vancouver Island right now and road tripped with the minimum stops to get here. The drive was an eye opener… the coles notes is that masks “optional” in the other Western provinces is being taken in greater numbers than I thought as masks “off.” Stop in Moose Jaw was about 50/50, even staff in their tourism building were without (granted behind glass). Canmore was the first real “holy (poop)” moment. If you just emerged from a hole for the last year and a half you might be surprised we’re working through a pandemic. Sidewalks quite full, us generally having to be the ones to sidestep to allow for decent distance. Van pulls up and drops off a full compliment of eight “da boyz” ready for a night on the town. Our motel sends me a text as we’re getting close advising that the hot tub is now open and ready for use (I'm two doses plus two weeks, but a little too soon thx). Grocery store I made a run to had about 50 people it, only three with masks on that I saw. Revelstoke grocery store was similar and of course you have to quickly accept you don’t get to know anyone’s vaccine status and trust in your own. In Abbotsford I was asked to take my mask off at the quick service food restaurant so the guy working the counter could understand me better (politely declined). noticable difference on the ferry and Island itself where its more like 3/4 chosen mask use… but its all enough to see where this is heading barring Delta (or future variant) complications.
This is the environment an open border will plug into, keeping in mind that whoever comes across is fully vaccinated to start.
With Manitoba being behind the other provinces in timeline around impacts of third wave and with having to make decisions with Winkler/Steinbach in mind I imagine we’re extra cautious in flipping the switch to the next level of re-opening as we stick to our guns with criteria needed for the third phase (80%/75%). If Manitoba’s still in its current re-opening stage it will be interesting to see what kind of education is in place to make sure our current rules are known and followed by visitors to make sure we're safely sticking to what needs to be done for the province and it's own unique Covid state.
"
Just curious why you would make minimal stops or refuse to remove your mask if your fully vaxxed? Genuinely curious. I've followed the science all along, and since science now says I'm protected, I believe I am, and do not wear a mask when not required. If health Canada says I can hug people again, I can definitely talk to someone behind a glass without a mask on!
Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Protection
7/23/2021 at 11:35 PM

Albertagirl said "Just curious why you would make minimal stops or refuse to remove your mask if your fully vaxxed? Genuinely curious. I've followed the science all along, and since science now says I'm protected, I believe I am, and do not wear a mask when not required. If health Canada says I can hug people again, I can definitely talk to someone behind a glass without a mask on! "
The vaccines don't necessarily prevent you from catching Covid - it reduces the odds, very significantly, that you will have a fairly mild case (relatively speaking, mild Covid can still be awful from what I hear). That also means you can probably still transmit it, although they're still working that out.

The reality is that we don't know how long or how profoundly the vaccine will work. With new variants, it's not as effective. New data coming out of Israel suggests that effectiveness gradually declines as time passes. Some places in the US have reimposed mask mandates as cases soar.

Many people are taking a wait and see approach. I know I am. I would rather continue to be cautious in the short term until we have a better picture what long term looks like.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Why
7/23/2021 at 11:45 PM

Albertagirl said "Just curious why you would make minimal stops or refuse to remove your mask if your fully vaxxed? Genuinely curious. I've followed the science all along, and since science now says I'm protected, I believe I am, and do not wear a mask when not required. If health Canada says I can hug people again, I can definitely talk to someone behind a glass without a mask on! "
Thx for asking.
When:
-I’m traveling with a young one of age that can’t get vaccinated yet
-I return to a province in a few days that hasn’t hit its double-vax target and is still in a serious enough situation to require masks
-the restriction relaxing in these provinces allows for anti-vaxxers/vaccine-hesitant to mingle with the rest of the population unprotected in higher-risk environments
-No shortage of experts point to an opening for Delta and variants between the amount of population still unvaccinated and the potential for those vaccinated to still act as virus vectors

…. it’s the responsible thing to do.

I'm as looking forward to post-Covid life as the next guy and excited to see us getting closer and closer every day, but when habits are established I'm in no rush to change them if there's benefit to keeping them up. Will re-evaluate based on guidance from my own province if/when Manitoba hits 80/75… benchmarks that incidentally none of these provinces have reached yet.
At any rate, the main thing I wanted to get across when posting was the clear regional disparities right now. That Manitoba doesn't seem to be too far from reaching the same goals... and how that and differing policy by region/country might or might not influence peoples' thinking as this thread goes on.