Discussions

Why can't Brandon get fibre GIGABIT internet service for $57 per month, like what Olds, Alberta gets and has already done years ago? The City of Brandon should band together and make this an essential service, and a reality. It' is petty ridiculous that Brandon's ISPs don't want to provide this type of service at a reasonable cost.  
 
Check out what Olds, Alberta did for their community a few years back:  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/small-alberta-town-gets-massive-1-000-mbps-broadband-boost-1.1382428  
 
http://montrealgazette.com/technology/canada-can-learn-from-olds-ab-the-city-with-the-fastest-internet-speed

I have a hard time seeing why this should be deemed an essential service. Also the cost associated with updating the entire city to fibre cable likely doesn't make sense to any of the ISPs at this time.

You would effectively be cutting the legs out from under a locally owned business who proudly has its name plastered on the side of a building that is Brandon's largest economic draw!

Olds paid 13 to 14 million to complete the project for a town of 8500 people. So at that rate, Brandon would cost about 75 million, that''s why it won''t happen here anytime soon. It''s not easy to replace every copper line in town with fibre optics.  
 
In Olds, the project was done by the town, using grants and loans. In Brandon, all the existing infrastructure is owned by companies trying to still turn a profit, which is fine. If our city wanted to get into this idea, they would have to either start from scratch and build all new infrastructure and try to compete with existing ISPS, or attempt to purchase an ISP and update the existing infrastructure. Either scenario is highly unlikely.  
 
Edited by Bob Sacamano, 2017-01-23 11:09:07

I really don't think that is the case in terms of this being a $75M cost. Olds was a pilot project done several years ago, and the costs would now likely be much lower because the pilot would have figured out the efficiencies and the logistics of getting the work completed by this point. I bet this could be replicated much cheaper by now.  
 
I was looking and the current cost for fiber service in Brandon runs at $1 per MBPS, per month. By that logic, to get the same service in Brandon that Olds is now providing would cost a homeowner $1,000 per month! By contrast, Olds is offering this same 1,000 MBPS service for only $57 (a 94% savings over Brandon's current rate model). Something isn't right with this type of math.

Bell gigabit is $150/month. If their purchase of MTS goes through, then MTS may eventually offer similar products and pricing. O-net gigabit is $125/month, not a huge difference.

Why would this be an essential service???

adc said "Why would this be an essential service??? "

I agree with this ruling, but anyway....  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-internet-essential-service-1.3906664

Kirmit said "I really don't think that is the case in terms of this being a $75M cost. Olds was a pilot project done several years ago, and the costs would now likely be much lower because the pilot would have figured out the efficiencies and the logistics of getting the work completed by this point. I bet this could be replicated much cheaper by now.     I was looking and the current cost for fiber service in Brandon runs at $1 per MBPS, per month. By that logic, to get the same service in Brandon that Olds is now providing would cost a homeowner $1,000 per month! By contrast, Olds is offering this same 1,000 MBPS service for only $57 (a 94% savings over Brandon's current rate model). Something isn't right with this type of math. "

Costs generally don't go down on any type of construction. What part would cost less now? The labour? The engineering? The materials? Permits?  
 
The ability to easily stream 5 HD movies at the same time isn't exactly an essential service.

Also is it true gigabit service if you are sharing the service with 4-5 other houses on the same street? Bell/MTS /Westman will only start replacing copper wire in brandon once the wire is basically rotten and unable to be used.

Trust me, in a few short years you are going to look back at your current 12 MBPS and wonder why we ever allowed that to happen, when small town Olds, Alberta was able to provide 1,000 MBPS for less than what you are now paying for 12 MBPS. Unless you want to go back a few years and re-energize your 56K dial-up, high speed internet should be classified as an essential service because it's 2017:  
 
http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/22/14052368/canada-broadband-internet-essential-service

Olds began this project with their first connected customer back in 2013 at the height of the oil and gas industry nearing $100 for a barrel of oil. This project would have needed to compete for labour/workers from the oil and gas sector, and a whole host of other high paying construction industries. Brandon could pay a good wage for workers on this type of project, and still have the costs be (relatively) down in today's sputtering economy. Don't think that somehow the costs associated with undertaking this project in a (then) heated oil and gas economy, would be anywhere near what you should expect to pay out in Brandon, or even Manitoba. Remember, this is the town's not for profit economic development foundation, not another national ISP looking for ways to take down their next customer.

Kirmit said "Trust me, in a few short years you are going to look back at your current 12 MBPS and wonder why we ever allowed that to happen, when small town Olds, Alberta was able to provide 1,000 MBPS for less than what you are now paying for 12 MBPS. Unless you want to go back a few years and re-energize your 56K dial-up, high speed internet should be classified as an essential service because it's 2017:     http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/22/14052368/canada-broadband-internet-essential-service "

Westman and MTS already offer speeds that exceed the rates that the government has deemed essential.

foxtrot11 said "    adc said "Why would this be an essential service??? " I agree with this ruling, but anyway....     http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crtc-internet-essential-service-1.3906664 "

I understand internet to be essential in this day and age, but 1000 mbps is not. This article says the aim is to have 10% of Canadians under 50 mbps by 2021. In no place does it mention 1000.

Many Brandon people never seem to surprise me. Some people will always take the position of just trying to achieve the bare minimum that is ever stipulated/required. It seems that from some, the goal seems to now be in trying to achieve over the next 10 years catching up the MINIMUM speed standard that was recently stated by the CRTC. Meanwhile, rural farm town Olds, Alberta is operating at minimum speeds that are upwards of 100 times faster than our current standard (1,000 MBPS vs 12 MBPS), they already have had the infrastrucure in place for many years now, their businesses, residents, and community is benefiting immensely from the quality service, the people and businesses are able to do more, waste less time on computers waiting to get information loaded at every click of the button, can actually enjoy the technology and high quality streams available on the overpriced 4K TVs that Brandonites can't, whom can enjoy more leisure time in their day, and can pay a sustainable and reasonable $57 per month fee for it, instead of the $1,000 price tag that Brandonites would PREFER to be charged for the same level of service. Open your eyes, people. Fibre internet is already out there, and we're way behind. Globally, Canadians pay among the highest rates for phone, internet, and television services, and predictably have amongst the slowest of speeds. This is no way of moving an already indebted economy into the 21st century without technological resources that are increasingly becoming standard in other parts of the country/world. Demand more from your ISPs, or find ways of making their stagnant and unmotivated business models unprofitable.

It's $125/month, not $57. 50 megabit is $90, the same price as MTS.

Just so we're clear, subscriber bandwidth is unaffected with fibre cable. Under current non-fibre infrastructure bandwidth resources on will likely be reduced/affected by internet traffic in your neighbourhood, but not from a fibre cable that is also giving you 1,000 MBPS.  
 
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Is the fiber optic connection shared?  
 
No, contrary to other types of cable connections, you have a dedicated fiber optic connection. Therefore your bandwidth is not shared and the speed of your connection is not affected by the network traffic of other enterprises in your vicinity.  
 
http://www.openface.com/connectivity/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-fiber-optics/  
 
http://www.warwicknet.com/blog/how-fast-can-fibre-optic-go

I am not sure how O-net designed their network, but most fibre optic connections are shared. Each house has a dedicated fibre, but upstream there is an optical splitter that splits one fibre from the central office into 16-64 fibres to run to each house. The other people sharing a splitter with you can affect your speed.  
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_network

Either way, if your starting point is a service of 1,000 GBPS, network "sharing" over fibre is a lot less relevant of an issue. A slight drop in speed at those theoretical maximums is nearly irrelevant in terms of the overall service that you would be receiving, as compared to my current "shared" 12 MBPS service that now costs about $57 per month from a local ISP.

 
 
Edited by Kirmit, 2017-01-23 13:15:10

ultraguy said "It's $125/month, not $57. 50 megabit is $90, the same price as MTS. "

I don't think anyone said 50 Mbps was $57 in Brandon. I stated that Brandon ISPs offer speeds that exceed what is deemed as essential by the government. ISPs can still charge what they want, the government hasn't given pricing criteria to meet........yet.

I was correcting Kirmit. He keeps saying that gigabit is $57 when it's actually $125.

No, My original post was about what the town of Olds, Alberta did.  
 
And yes, this non-profit is charging $57 for 1,000 MBPS service, whereas one of Brandon's prominent ISPs charges $57 in one of their plans but only provides 12 MBPS. I don't know where your $125 number is coming from ...  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/small-alberta-town-gets-massive-1-000-mbps-broadband-boost-1.1382428  
 
http://westmancom.com/personal/internet/high-speed-plans/

http://o-net.ca/internet-single-play/  
 
Not sure why you are using a news article from over three years ago as your price source.

Olds population only grew by 200 between 2012 and 2014. A real powder keg of growth  
 
  Now if this recently installed high speed shows a whack load of growth in population between 2014 and the next census fine.  
 
I for one do not want the city to compete with our taxpaying isps that employ many.  
 
These speeds will come when our market wil support it.  
 
Edited by Doug, 2017-01-23 14:51:28

They did it as a forward thinking effort to attract business to their community. It took a lot of work and you wouldn't believe the resistance they had to overcome from the big providers. They set it up exactly like westman communications, and by that I mean as a coop. I knew one of the board members who put this whole thing together and I remember him telling me the Alberta government built the main "trunk line" which made it possible for all the providers to even consider speeds like that...my understanding is we don't have that infrastructure in Manitoba at all so we couldn't really do it if we wanted to any way.

also connected to the Alberta Supernet. Which is owned by the Alberta Government.  
 
https://connectalberta.axiacloud.pub/  
 
And no, the City of Brandon should not get into the ISP business.