Discussions

If unions do not have there value anymore then i say we cut the police, fire, medical unions right now.  
 
They are the single biggest source of where our tax dollors go to.  
 
Think about that.

MrsZ2015 said "I currently work at a place that has a union. I am vocal in my distaste for this union. Our rep is so vocal on her dislike of the person who started our company. Degraded me when I took a stand on something I believe that employees should have (why are benefits so unheard of here?). The good employees leave because the crappt ones stay. How many times does a staff need to be written up, etc. "

What do you mean why are benefits so unheard of here? Is this a large company you work for, like over 60 employees?

Lots of places do not have a benefits package. If they do, it's meager. A health spending account is a joke when you're on regular medication and have glasses. And yes, my company has more than 60 employees. Believe me, I've attempted to talk to the union rep. I was literally told I didn't know what I was taking about. And yet my husband's work of 10 employees has a benefit plan.

To protect!!! That there is fairness and equality!! Shame on ANYONE for disagreeing. Do your research, not educating yourselves is repulsive. You also choose your union representatives! Use your vote! And to whom says tax payers pay unions no workers pay dues, wake up. If fire police and medical had none you would die on the street! They ensure fair wages and stability for our core needs!! Stupidity is such an ugly trait.

Brandon2012 said "To protect!!! That there is fairness and equality!! Shame on ANYONE for disagreeing. Do your research, not educating yourselves is repulsive. You also choose your union representatives! Use your vote! And to whom says tax payers pay unions no workers pay dues, wake up. If fire police and medical had none you would die on the street! They ensure fair wages and stability for our core needs!! Stupidity is such an ugly trait. "

Since I make up stories please further explain since I am such an idiot. If we take away unions right now boom...done. Are you saying that if I called 911 they would no longer come to my aid? If I called the fire department no trucks would show up? If my dad was having a heart attack nobody would try to revive him? If I sent my child to school nobody would teach them?  
 
I ask this as there is the comment of fair wages. What are you comparing them too? When looking at government wages what do they compare to? Is it other cities with unionized positions? Do they compare to the private sector? What is your definition of core needs? I won't dispute what unions have done pre war times and such which yes has helped form the basis of what is today. Within your own union since your last contract what working conditions have improved? Not trying to be an ass but just trying to do my research. I am accused of making up stories so I am wanting to open the floor to those telling me how their work conditions and company moral has increased.

I agree, sometimes unions help. But I've literally seen good staff get fed up working with useless staff who don't do eff all but get saved by union everytime. It's sad, and working in the field I do, it's even worse, as the crappy staff stay forever and individuals get substandard care. How is that in anyway fair?

Fishin Guy said "    don brown said "One place I believe that unions do maybe present a benefit is when it comes to dealing with wages. Most businesses, both private and public, are made up of different occupations and have pay scales that cover these differences. Just imagine if ever different occupation within a business dealt with it's own wages. Could be wrong on this, but I feel that both in the private and public sector if everyone tried to negotiate by themselves we would face continuous work stoppages. " It all depends. What I find in regarding wages there is no incentive to work harder. Why would I constantly give 110% when the guy beside me calls in every month, gives 60%, takes longer coffee breaks, etc? I have worked in both union and non-union jobs and I make way more in a non-union job. About the only way I was able to make more money in a union was to be paid at a skill level higher than what I was doing. My bosses wanted to give me more money but bound by the contract of the union. So essentially the union was withholding my ability to make more money. And the kick in the nuts was I was paying them to do so. Have a buddy in Alberta working a courier job. Disabled he makes on average 150 deliveries a day no matter what route he is on. Other drivers average 50-60 a day. Workers are now pisses at this guy for showing them up and now bosses try to expect the same out of them too. And they cannot pay my buddy more either as they would need to pay everyone the same then.     Everyone says unions fight for fair pay because companies are making all these millions of dollars. Have any of these union supporters ever looked at their own union and seen the money the union pulls in? Unions rake in piles of cash. Now it is more about what can the union get rather what can the employee get. Unions had its place many years ago I don't disagree. I have been on both sides of the fence and realizing now what companies that are not even unionized have to do with labor standards and health and safety....It doesn't matter where you work there are laws. One person wrote that they can be changed with a stroke of a pen. Well same with union policies too. Unions don't trump safety legislation or stuff like that. "

Would you name the union you were in like I was a member of the UFCW and United Steel Workers as I think your story is made up and you were never in a union.

Yes, unions definitely have a place when the employer is a large corporation that puts profit above all else.  
 
My unionized workplace is currently on a firing spree - those being targeted are within several years of retirement. The firings are believed to be a cost-cutting measure as it allows the company to keep accumulated pension contributions for an extra 10 years before commencing payout. We can retire at 55, but if we are dismissed, the pension payments don't commence until 65.  
 
As well, the company is quite fond of violating the terms of the collective agreement. Just these two items have caused a huge increase in costs for the union to be able to fight for their workers' rights and jobs.  
 
There are non-unionized positions in our company as well. A great majority of employees in those positions are being ruled by fear of losing their jobs. If they are dismissed, they have no one to fight for them. Sure, they can take their complaint to Labour Canada, but in reality, if they wish to make a real run at getting their jobs back, they face years of conflict, legal challenges and expenses. A union has the option of binding arbitration as provided in a negotiated collective agreement. The dismissed employee may have to endure some hardship financially, but can rest assured that they will not face the expenses and time necessary to overturn an unjust dismissal that a non-union employee would.  
 
Are unions necessary in a small, "Mom and Pop" style operation? Probably not, as the company itself doesn't have the resources for a long, drawn out fight either. The business owners also have the opportunity to get to know their employees much better than in a corporation, so bad employees are probably weeded out in the early stages.  
 
Granted, unions do offer equal protections to poor employees as well as good ones, but that is what equal treatment is all about. Just as the employer should not be able to favour one employee above another, neither should a union.  
 
Do unions serve a purpose in modern times? Certainly they do in certain instances. Could civilization do without unions at all? Not a chance while the almighty dollar reigns supreme in a capitalist society.  

Whiskers....I sent a pm to you. If I have never been in a union I want these bloody union dues I paid back then.

YES more than ever.

Fishin Guy said "Whiskers....I sent a pm to you. If I have never been in a union I want these bloody union dues I paid back then. "

So your unions didn't have any opportunity for promotions or merit based pay raises? Sounds like a crappy place to work. Not sure if that's the union's fault.

ultraguy said "    Fishin Guy said "Whiskers....I sent a pm to you. If I have never been in a union I want these bloody union dues I paid back then. " So your unions didn't have any opportunity for promotions or merit based pay raises? Sounds like a crappy place to work. Not sure if that's the union's fault. "

Promotions were either straight to management positions outside the union or you had to put your name in for a different skill position. These positions were based on seniority first. Since I was at the bottom there was no way I could get into these positions even though speaking with supervisors in those areas knew I would be a good worker in those positions than those that got the position. As for merit increases I was only allowed X amount of pay for year X of the union collective agreement. This is why my manager put me temporarily at a higher skill level position for a min amount of time to allow me higher pay for that day, repeated daily. I asked my union rep and they even said that I could only be paid certain amounts based on the collective agreement between the union and employer. Otherwise they would have to pay everyone higher wages then. I kept hearing that term over and over....as per the collective agreement. Did I like the people, for the most part in my area yes. Did I like the work environment, yes. Did I like the politics, no.

Fishin Guy said "Whiskers....I sent a pm to you. If I have never been in a union I want these bloody union dues I paid back then. "

I got you pm and all you tell me is how you did twice the work as other employees around you and how they took excessive washroom breaks and how as much to say they were all useless. Why don't you post the pm you sent me on ebrandon because it is unbelievable how you run down all other workers and praise yourself. If you were in that union you sound like a trouble maker who could not get along with other workers.

I have been in unionized companies and nonunionized and as far as I'm concerned the nonunionized ones are far less hassle. If you work hard, do what's required from you, you will be treated well. (If not then leave) I only saw the unions take my money and tie the hands of the company to discipline or remove ineffective/inappropriate workers that the rest of us had to put up with. And by the way! You can request your fees to be reimbursed to you. Or at least I was told that, a number of years ago. I was also told that I could ask to be removed from the union. So no, I don't think unions are still necessary. We have provincial/national laws and regulations for safe work places now. Individuals can always go there or workplace, health and safety if necessary.

Whiskers said "    Fishin Guy said "Whiskers....I sent a pm to you. If I have never been in a union I want these bloody union dues I paid back then. " I got you pm and all you tell me is how you did twice the work as other employees around you and how they took excessive washroom breaks and how as much to say they were all useless. Why don't you post the pm you sent me on ebrandon because it is unbelievable how you run down all other workers and praise yourself. If you were in that union you sound like a trouble maker who could not get along with other workers. "

Well Whiskers I don't know why the personal challenge with me only. Is it going to make you feel good or something by putting every little detail out online? Yes the department I was in I did twice the work as the average employee. Will you know that or confirm it? No. It is a moot point. I started and stopped the line many times at the start and end of shifts. There were repeated times through the day other workers were late to stations causing the line to stop. Will you confirm this? No. Sorry I don't follow the sheep. I guess by not being pro union you seem to want to have it out for me and call bullshit. Well Whiskers.......What great strides in working conditions and all that has your union gotten you? Want to call bullshit on my posts? What productive notes have you contributed besides constantly calling me out. Funny how others are not called out if they are not pro union like you. And not the same old....unions bring fair wages and safe working conditions to companies. Like I said before unions did have their place. pre war era but last I checked I am entitled to my own opinion.....and the last decade I haven't seen any strides in the workplace by unions. Please fill me in on what they have done.

If you like or don't like unions, don't choose to work at a place that has or doesn't have one. One can argue the merits of both, but a union will pretty much guarantee that you have some sort of representation should things hit the fan. Are people wrongfully terminated or bullied in the workplace? It happens. And don't whine about the other guy who is or isn't in a union. Don't cry....apply!

I've had very little do with unions over the course of time, but.....the times I have it has been a joke. The most memorable was at a manufacturing business here in Brandon in the eighties. Myself and another guy were hired in their busy season assembling display racks from cardboard and a metal swivel base. We thought that if we outperformed our dayshift counterparts we would stay on. We were very naïve. We literally outdid them by a 5 to 1 margin. We felt we had the world by the tail.....or so we thought. We were told by our supervisor that we had to slow down because since we had so much stockpiled, the day shift just screwed the pooch all day instead of keeping up our standard of being so far ahead. And guess what? When it came time to lay off, my co-worker and I and rest of the new hires were released in exactly the reverse order that we were hired. WOW!

a safe haven for lazy people who love mediocrity.

I worked at a place where the plant was unionized and the office workers were not. All I say was lazy, late, don't want to work people keep their jobs and many, many stupid grievances that wasted time and money. On the other hand I was laid off after 22 years and had I been part of the union, I could have bumped somebody and kept my job. Still though I am not a big fan of unions. I guess with this company, management was so busy and the company growing so fast, they just let the union run it. There is a place for unions if done properly. My husband works for a different union and things I would tell him about the union were I worked, he just shook his head and said that would never happen in his union.

Because much of this conversation depends on personal experiences. I worked in union environments back in my university days. I have been in a non-unionized workplace since. How much of my wages, etc, were driven by collective agreements in Union shops is completely unknown.  
I tend to think unions have an important place in our economy. While there are abuses, in every workplace, I think they serve to protect people as well as give employees an opportunity to bargain as a group.